Carla Scaletti and Kurt Hebel are the founders of Symbolic Sound, creators of the Kyma Sound Design Environment.

You may not have heard of the company or its founders, but you have definitely heard its products in films like WALL•E, The Dark Knight, Finding Nemo, games like World of Warcraft, Quake II, Mirror's Edge, and the music of A.R. Rahman.

In this episode, Carla and Kurt take us behind the scenes, revealing their philosophy of being “toolmakers” for artists, musicians, and sound designers. They open up about their mission to create tools that enable people to push the boundaries of audio creativity.

This conversation touches on the profound intersection of sound, science, and emotion. From the sonification of black holes to music’s power in conveying complex scientific ideas, Carla and Kurt challenge us to think differently about the role of sound in shaping our world.

One of the standout themes is how music can transcend time—although it unfolds over time, listening to music can create a sensation of stepping outside of time altogether. Composers, like those using Kyma, can manipulate the flow of time, making it feel like it’s speeding up or slowing down, creating emotional arcs that resonate deeply with listeners.

Carla and Kurt also discuss how sound shapes thought, arguing that people who study music think about time differently. In fact, they suggest music is a kind of sonification of the composer’s inner mental state. When we listen, we transpose that state onto ourselves, making music one of the most profoundly meaningful forms of human expression.

They also talk about the human instinct for storytelling—just as visual art ranges from literal to abstract, so too can music, ranging from highly structured compositions to avant-garde soundscapes. Even in abstract forms, humans naturally find meaning by recognizing patterns and emotions within sound.

This episode offers a rare glimpse into the minds of two innovators who have significantly influenced the field of sound design and music technology. It's a deep exploration of the philosophy of sound, the future of music, and life itself.

This is our conversation with Carla Scaletti and Kurt Hebel, the brilliant minds behind Symbolic Sound Corporation and the Kyma Sound Design Environment.

EPISODE LINKS: Symbolic Sound: https://kyma.symbolicsound.com/

Carla Scaletti's Website: https://carlascaletti.com/

Kyma's Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyma_(sound_design_language)

ILLIAC Supercomputer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILLIAC

PLATO: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLATO_(computer_system)

Don Bitzer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Bitzer

OUTLINE:

0:00 - Introduction

0:38 - Cost of Education

3:35 - Aaryaman's Future Plans

12:37 - Is the Universe a Computation?

19:02 - Do Gods Have Religion?

22:16 - No sound without time

23:43 - The Sound of a Black Hole

30:05 - The Sonification of Science

41:05 - Music & Transcendence

49:53 - How to Describe Music with Words?

56:04 - Carla Scaletti's Compositions

1:00:55 - A Guide to Music Appreciation

1:14:47 - A.R. Rahman

1:19:54 - WALL-E

1:23:28 - Musical Instruments

1:27:52 - The Music of the Future

1:38:40 - How to Learn

1:44:22 - Interdisciplinary Collaboration

1:46:44 - Closing words