In this episode of The Tech Leader's Playbook, Avetis Antaplyan sits down with Erik Huberman, founder and CEO of Hawke Media, to unpack why the old marketing playbook is broken—and what actually scales in 2025. Erik shares how AI has collapsed the product moat, making distribution, brand, and go-to-market the real advantages. He explains the “vibe” behind breakout brands (think Liquid Death) and why software companies must now win on trust, positioning, and partnerships rather than feature lists. We dig into Hawke Media’s early differentiation—“your outsourced CMO,” month-to-month flexibility, and a la carte services—and how credibility compounds through consistent standards, client communication, and third-party validation (PR as trust, not awareness). Erik also breaks down the myths of ROAS, how to measure what matters across sales cycles, and a pragmatic framework for investing in founders with an unfair advantage. Finally, he offers founder operating principles: build the company you want to run, avoid burnout and bad debt, and let culture be the brand customers experience. If you lead growth, run a services firm, or invest in SaaS, this is a tactical masterclass in cutting through noise and turning credibility into compounding results.
Takeaways
AI shrinks product moats; distribution and GTM become the edge.
90% should be scalable, repeatable marketing; 10% creative bets to stand out.
Brand “vibe” creates defensibility—even for software—by signaling trust and values.
Positioning that travels (“your outsourced CMO”) fuels word-of-mouth and referrals.
PR is a **trust*asset more than awareness—turn third-party moments into ads.
ROAS often lies; anchor to sales cycle, lifetime value, and full-funnel ROI.
Think in “half-lives”: run long enough to see conversions, then optimize and wait again.
Relationships and communication keep clients through dips; performance alone isn’t enough.
Niche vs. breadth: define ICP and messaging; teams can specialize without shrinking TAM.
Use the Rule of 40 to balance profit and growth when setting spend.
Investors should seek unfair advantages: embedded founders, ecosystem ties, real GTM.
Founder principle: build for yourself; avoid debt/burnout—your ambition sets the ceiling.
Chapters
00:00 Intro and guest setup Erik Huberman and the new moat in an AI world
04:20 Distribution, partnerships, and GTM as the unfair advantage
08:05 Brand “vibe” and positioning that actually travels
11:45 How Hawke Media stood out the outsourced CMO model
21:30 The awareness → nurture → trust framework
34:40 The ROAS trap and what to measure instead
44:05 Spend strategy, Rule of 40, and scaling channels
47:00 Sales-cycle “half-lives” and realistic ramp timelines
48:45 Make-it-work mindset for leaders and marketers
52:50 Investor lens embedded founders and unfair advantages
58:21 Final takeaways and close
Erik Huberman’s Social Media Links:
https://www.instagram.com/erikhuberman
https://www.linkedin.com/in/erikhuberman/
Erik Huberman’s Websites:
Resources and Links: