What if poetry isn't just for English majors and literary journals—but for anyone trying to make sense of their story? In this episode, Wendy sits down with longtime friend, counselor, and poet Sue Cunningham to talk about the unexpected ways poetry has shown up in their lives—and how it's helped them make sense of their stories. They talk about the moments that drew them toward writing, the wounds that made it feel out of reach, and the slow return to creative expression as a form of healing, honesty, and hope. Sue shares how a flyer on a coffee shop bulletin board led her back to poetry, and Wendy reflects on a college experience that nearly convinced her to give it up for good. They also reflect on poetry as protest, as presence, and as a way to say things that are too complex—or too sacred—for ordinary language. This conversation is gentle, grounding, and full of quiet encouragement. Whether you consider yourself a writer or not, it just might help you see your own story a little differently. Connect with Us! Follow @nurturecounselingnc [https://www.instagram.com/nurturecounselingnc/] on Instagram Visit nurturecounseling.net [https://www.nurturecounseling.net/]

Feedback is one of the trickiest things to get right in any relationship—especially the ones that matter most. In this episode, Wendy and Chris unpack a recent exchange that gave them a front-row seat to what helps… and what hurts. From tone and timing to defensiveness and shame, they name the subtle dynamics that shape how feedback lands—and what it takes to create space for honesty without sacrificing connection. But this isn't just a conversation about communication techniques. It's about the deeper stories underneath our reactions: the expectations we bring into marriage, the ways we want to be understood, and the fear that we're being dismissed or judged. With curiosity and vulnerability, Wendy and Chris explore how even casual feedback can stir up old wounds—and how intentional language can start to heal them. Along the way, they offer clear, practical tools: simple shifts in phrasing, a framework for checking your own heart before speaking up, and some laugh-out-loud moments from their own learning curve. Whether you've been married for decades or just want to get better at saying hard things with love, this episode will leave you feeling both seen and equipped. This conversation is real, warm, and incredibly useful. It's about the gap between intention and impact—and the courage it takes to close that gap with kindness. Connect with Us! Follow @nurturecounselingnc [https://www.instagram.com/nurturecounselingnc/] on Instagram Visit nurturecounseling.net [https://www.nurturecounseling.net/]

There's a new intern at Nurture Counseling — and y'all, while Chris Osborn might be married to Wendy, that doesn't mean he's off the hook for the usual intern duties. In this episode, we officially welcome Chris to the team… and gently remind him that coffee runs and red carpet rollouts may still be part of the gig. But in all seriousness, this episode opens up a much deeper story — one that's been unfolding for decades. Chris reflects on his family of origin, growing up in the wake of a very public divorce, and learning early on that being the "good guy" could help him survive and belong. He shares how shame quietly shaped him, how his identity became entangled with performance, and how that eventually unraveled through the pressures of marriage, parenting, caregiving, and calling. Now, as he steps into the work of therapy, Chris shares the kind of clients he hopes to sit with — especially those who feel like their answers are no longer working, who are worn out from trying to hold it all together, and who need a safe place to be fully seen. With humor, humility, and a deeply thoughtful presence, Chris is stepping into this new chapter with both feet — and a lot of heart. This conversation is honest, funny, and full of grace. It's about the stories we carry, the systems that shaped us, and the quiet courage to begin again — a courage that doesn't come from within, but from the love of a God who meets us right where we are. Connect with Us! Follow @nurturecounselingnc [https://www.instagram.com/nurturecounselingnc/] on Instagram Visit nurturecounseling.net [https://www.nurturecounseling.net/]

Why is it so hard to stay connected when conflict shows up? For most of us, the moment tension rises, we slip into debate mode — fighting for the win instead of fighting for the relationship. In this episode, Wendy and Chris get honest about what that looks like in their own marriage, and what it takes to choose connection instead. They share stories from their early years together — when Saturday morning chores, unspoken expectations, and clashing habits revealed something much deeper: the longing to be seen, loved, and secure. Along the way, they name how family of origin, formative wounds, and even the wiring of our brains set us up to repeat old patterns, and how easy it is to cling to being "right" when what we really want is to be close. (Ever had an argument where the real fight wasn't about the dishes? Yeah, us too.) At the heart of the conversation is a crucial distinction: coercion vs. connection. Coercion may look like control, persuasion, or even righteousness — but love rooted in Christ makes room for freedom. It bears with one another in humility, gentleness, patience, and forgiveness, just as Ephesians 4:2 and Colossians 3:13 call us to. This isn't about avoiding conflict or pretending differences don't matter. It's about moving from debate to dialogue, from certainty to curiosity, and from control to trust. Honest, funny, and deeply hopeful, this conversation is full of the kind of real-life wisdom y'all will recognize — the kind that just might change how you show up in your next argument. Connect with Us! Follow @nurturecounselingnc [https://www.instagram.com/nurturecounselingnc/] on Instagram Visit nurturecounseling.net [https://www.nurturecounseling.net/]

We had the best time sitting down with Becky Allender — writer, grandmother, co-founder of The Allender Center, and yes, longtime partner-in-life-and-love to Dr. Dan Allender. But make no mistake: Becky is a force in her own right. Her presence is warm, steady, and disarmingly honest. And for decades, she's been a vital voice shaping the work that has impacted thousands through Dan's teaching, writing, and the Allender Center's mission. In this conversation, Becky reflects on entering what she calls the final chapter — not with resignation, but with clarity, intentionality, and grace. She shares what it means to show up fully in marriage at this stage of life, especially as Dan focuses his last major professional efforts on the topic of marriage itself. Becky names what it's like to be drawn more visibly into that work, to keep growing in her own voice, and to embrace the joy and ache of this season with open hands. We also talk about parenting — the beautiful and brutal reality of reckoning with the ways we've missed the mark, and how to best engage when our adult children bring their stories back to us. Becky's example of listening with humility, resisting the urge to defend, and offering genuine curiosity is a masterclass in becoming more like Jesus. We discuss what it means to bless our grown children even when their lives and choices look different than ours did, and to trust that God is big enough to hold what we couldn't. This episode is honest, tender, funny, and rich with lived wisdom. Becky doesn't offer easy answers — but she offers something better: a deeply human picture of love, courage, and grace that keeps unfolding across decades. We're so grateful for her presence, and we think you will be too. 🌐 Connect with Becky [https://theallendercenter.org/about/team/becky-allender/] Follow @nurturecounselingnc [https://www.instagram.com/nurturecounselingnc/]

As our lives grow more complex, so does our faith. The black-and-white answers we once held tightly often lose their grip when we find ourselves sitting beside hospital beds, walking through grief, or holding space for the pain of others. In this second half of our conversation with Rachel Clinton Chen, we talk about what it means to grow a faith that's big enough to hold suffering — our own and others'. Rachel names how spiritual authority can be misused to wound, silence, or control, and what healing can look like when we begin to tell the truth about that harm. If you've ever felt shaken by disillusionment, unsure how to trust again, or wondered what love really looks like when power has been misused — this episode offers story, clarity, and hope. Healing doesn't always come through having the right answers. Sometimes, it begins with letting go of certainty and choosing to stay curious about who God really is. Connect with Rachael: @rachaelclintonchen [https://www.instagram.com/rachaelclintonchen/] theallendercenter.org [https://theallendercenter.org/author/clintonr/] Learn more about Nurture Counseling: @nurturecounselingnc [https://www.instagram.com/nurturecounselingnc/] nurturecounseling.net [https://www.nurturecounseling.net/#home]

Some people come into your life and quietly, powerfully change its trajectory. For Wendy, that person was Rachael Clinton Chen. In this first half of a two-part conversation, we sit down with Rachael — a pastor, teacher, and co-host of the Allender Center Podcast — for a conversation that's rich with honesty, clarity, and care. We talk about what it means to be truly seen, why minimizing suffering is so common (especially in Christian spaces), and the small but brave turns that can lead us toward freedom. Rachael shares pieces of her own story — from growing up in a fundamentalist church, to experiencing spiritual abuse, to slowly finding her way back to a more spacious and embodied love of God. She reflects on the disorientation that comes when relationships, especially those rooted in spiritual authority, become harmful — and how reclaiming our voice and agency is part of the healing journey. Along the way, we talk about power, trust, and the kind of theology that either binds us or sets us free. This episode is full of honesty, warmth, and fierce kindness. It's for anyone who's ever wondered if they were too much, too broken, or too far gone to be met by God — and needed to hear, gently but clearly: you're not. Content note: This conversation includes references to trauma and non-graphic mentions of suicidal thoughts. Please listen with care. Connect with Rachael: @rachaelclintonchen [https://www.instagram.com/rachaelclintonchen/] theallendercenter.org [https://theallendercenter.org/author/clintonr/]

What comes to mind when you hear the words "self-care"? A bubble bath? A walk in the woods? Maybe… a little guilt? In this episode, Wendy sits down with her good friend Danielle Hughes—a counselor, spiritual director, and fellow traveler in the world of soul-tending. They talk about what it really means to care for ourselves in a way that's honest, sustainable, and spiritually grounded. Danielle shares about her unique upbringing overseas, her current season of parenting and ministry, and how she's learning (slowly) to listen to her own needs. Wendy reflects on a season of burnout, and the surprising ways she found healing—not through doing more, but through receiving help from others…and from God. If you've ever felt tired but unsure how to stop, or if you know all the right things to do but never seem to get around to actually doing them—this one's for you. They also share a new offering for women in Charlotte: Self-Care Camp (yes, it's as good as it sounds). Come listen in.

Y'all… we're blushing just a little over this one. Because today, we're going there — with therapist and author Sam Jolman, who joins us for a gracious, grounded, and yes, occasionally awkward conversation about sex, story, and the deep hope of healing. Sam's new book The Sex Talk You Never Got is the kind of resource we wish we'd had at 13, 22, and honestly, last week. We talk about what we learned (and didn't) growing up in the church, how shame got tangled up with desire, and what it means to honor our bodies — and each other's — with curiosity, reverence, and kindness. Together we explore consent, deep wounds caused by "purity culture," emotional regulation, co-regulation, and the quiet ache for connection that often lives beneath our behaviors. Whether you're parenting kids through the thick of it, untangling your own story, or simply trying to feel a little less weird about the fact that this topic still makes you squirm, we hope you'll feel seen, safe, and invited. Because this part of us — our longing, our tenderness, our capacity for joy — was never meant to be shut down. It was meant to be restored. Check out Sam's book at samjolman.com [https://www.samjolman.com/the-sex-talk-you-never-got-book/]. Connect with Wendy on Instagram: @nurturecounselingnc [https://www.instagram.com/nurturecounselingnc/]

A frequent theme of this lil' ol' podcast is that having a more honest, compassionate, and kind regard for your own story of formation in your family of origin can be a huge source of greater intimacy and kindness in your marriage. But how exactly does that work? What does it look like in practice for both people in a marriage to explore their stories, together? What are the ideal circumstances and commitments that a couple would want to have before going into such a process?  And what might they hope to gain if the effort bears fruit?  Is it just a bunch of self-absorbed "navel gazing" or blame-shifting to our parents for our present day problems?  Or, might there be something powerful, delicate, and maybe even holy at work? In this THIRD episode of a3part series, Chris and Wendy share intimately about what doing story work has looked like through the last 20+ years of their marriage. And as you will see, it's been quite a journey....  They also describe what can happen when a couple either works with Wendy as their counselor to do story work for the benefit of their marriage, or decides to engage in a marriage story workshop or a one-on-one couples' intensive.  No matter where you are in your marriage, there will be something of goodness, mystery, and wonder to be gained just for a half hour or so of your listening time.  Enjoy!

A frequent theme of this lil' ol' podcast is that having a more honest, compassionate, and kind regard for your own story of formation in your family of origin can be a huge source of greater intimacy and kindness in your marriage. But how exactly does that work? What does it look like in practice for both people in a marriage to explore their stories, together? What are the ideal circumstances and commitments that a couple would want to have before going into such a process?  And what might they hope to gain if the effort bears fruit?  Is it just a bunch of self-absorbed "navel gazing" or blame-shifting to our parents for our present day problems?  Or, might there be something powerful, delicate, and maybe even holy at work? In this second episode of a three part series, Chris and Wendy share intimately about what doing story work has looked like through the last 20+ years of their marriage. And as you will see, it's been quite a journey....  They also describe what can happen when a couple either works with Wendy as their counselor to do story work for the benefit of their marriage, or decides to engage in a marriage story workshop or a one-on-one couples' intensive.  No matter where you are in your marriage, there will be something of goodness, mystery, and wonder to be gained just for a half hour or so of your listening time.  Enjoy!

A frequent theme of this lil' ol' podcast is that having a more honest, compassionate, and kind regard for your own story of formation in your family of origin can be a huge source of greater intimacy and kindness in your marriage.   But how exactly does that work?   What does it look like in practice for both people in a marriage to explore their stories, together?   What are the ideal circumstances and commitments that a couple would want to have before going into such a process?  And what might they hope to gain if the effort bears fruit?  Is it just a bunch of self-absorbed "navel gazing" or blame-shifting to our parents for our present day problems?  Or, might there be something powerful, delicate, and maybe even holy at work? In this first episode of a three part series, Chris and Wendy share intimately about what doing story work has looked like through the last 20+ years of their marriage. And as you will see, it's been quite a journey....  They also describe what can happen when a couple either works with Wendy as their counselor to do story work for the benefit of their marriage, or decides to engage in a marriage story workshop or a one-on-one couples' intensive.  No matter where you are in your marriage, there will be something of goodness, mystery, and wonder to be gained just for a half hour or so of your listening time.  Enjoy!

Here's a crazy thought:  The hardest places in your marriage--the most maddening merry-go-rounds of misery, mixed motives, meanness, malcontendedness, and missed moments--might actually hold the key to discovering greater intimacy and connection.  (Yep. Read that again.) Hang with us here.  What if our rough edges, our raw spots, our "triggers," if you will-- are not just random, or merely "sin patterns" we need to repent of, or weird personality quirks? What if there is a reason that each of us loves what we love, and hates what we hate? Doesn't it make sense that those nagging "bad habits" or addictions or relational patterns that we can't break free from were learned somewhere, from someone, and for some purpose? And if so, could the path to lasting freedom involve deeper exploration of where they came from? Put another way, the idols that our hearts have looked to for deliverance had to have been forged in a furnace at some point.  If that's true, then what might we learn and how might we grow, by going back into that fiery furnace--but with with wise guidance, kind care, and worthy travelling companions? In in this episode, Wendy and Chris and their dear friends, Steve &  Lisa Call, explore the transformative power of marriage "story work," and how it can rekindle hope for a relationship, catalyze greater attunement to one another, cultivate a more enduring resilience, and deepen intimacy. There's also practical guidance on what it looks like for couples to engage one another's most formative stories by themselves, with a counselor, and in marriage story group contexts.  The Calls are the founders of The Reconnect Institute, and co-authors, with Dan and Becky Allender, of an incredibly insightful and practical new book, The Deep Rooted Marriage: Cultivating Intimacy, Healing, and Delight--a book that provides encouragement and practical guidance for building, nurturing, and even repairing a marriage.  Steve is a longtime counselor and counselor educator at the Seattle School of Theology & Psychology, and Lisa is a story work coach who has completed multiple levels of training in narrative focused trauma care at The Allender Center. Through The Reconnect Institute, they have worked with countless couples to dig up the roots of recurrent conflict, and provide opportunities for reflection, renewal, and resurrection. Where to find our guests: The Deep-Rooted Marriage [https://www.amazon.com/Deep-Rooted-Marriage-Cultivating-Intimacy-Healing/dp/1400344468/ref=asc_df_1400344468?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80195820408724&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583795285512647&psc=1&msclkid=63e676e67644185ae646112b8ff4e899] Reconnect Institute [https://www.thereconnectinstitute.com/] Marriage Story Intensives [https://www.thereconnectinstitute.com/marriage-story-intensive]

Have you ever been "stuck" in your marriage? Maybe it's the same old conflict loop that seems to play over and over. You run through the familiar moves and countermoves until one or both of you reaches the point of exhaustion. So you put down the weapons for a bit, and limp into a cease fire, but nothing ever fully gets resolved.  And you both live on edge, knowing that you are one disappointment or careless remark away from starting the vicious cycle all over again. Or maybe you're not fighting, but you're not really connecting either. You've got your friends, he has his work and his toys, and you come together to shepherd the kids through the next weekly round of activities.  But when you take the time to be honest with yourself, you fear you've lost the spark, the sizzle, the joy that you once knew as a married couple. You may vocalize what sounds like an innocent enough question, "Is this all there is?", but therein might lie the doorway to any number of unhelpful and potentially destructive mirages of escape or numbing out.  However "stuckness" shows up in your marriage, Surviving Saturday is here with a reminder that there is hope. For real.  Come spend a little time with Wendy & Chris and their dear friends, Dr. Steve Call & his wife Lisa, and maybe you will catch a glimpse. The Calls are the co-authors, with Dan and Becky Allender, of an incredibly helpful new book, The Deep Rooted Marriage: Cultivating Intimacy, Healing, and Delight--a book that provides encouragement and practical guidance for building, nurturing, and even repairing a marriage. Ya just gotta get down to the roots... Steve is a longtime counselor and counselor educator at the Seattle School of Theology & Psychology, and Lisa is a story work coach who has completed multiple levels of training in narrative focused trauma care at the Allender Center.  Through the Reconnect Institute, they have worked with countless couples to dig up the roots of recurrent conflict, and provide opportunities for reflection, renewal, and resurrection. Where to find our guests: The Deep-Rooted Marriage [https://www.amazon.com/Deep-Rooted-Marriage-Cultivating-Intimacy-Healing/dp/1400344468/ref=asc_df_1400344468?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80195820408724&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583795285512647&psc=1&msclkid=63e676e67644185ae646112b8ff4e899] Reconnect Institute [https://www.thereconnectinstitute.com/] Marriage Story Intensives [https://www.thereconnectinstitute.com/marriage-story-intensive]

This one has it all:  Logs and specks, vows and curses, mustard seeds of faith, our relationships with power and control... and a compellingly redemptive conversation on a ski slope... We pick up the conversation with everyone's absolute favorite marriage themes, lust and anger.  Yep.  :-)  As off-putting as that may sound, you may still want to hear the rest of Dan's story.  We discuss how coming to the end of ourselves (which often happens when our individual triggers show up) can offer beautiful opportunities for spouses to taste true redemption.   Tune in for Part 2 of our lively interview with Dr. Dan Allender, our friend, mentor, wise guide, and source of inspiration in everything we do at Nurture Counseling and here on the podcast. Pre-order The Deep-Rooted Marriage here to get access to some special companion resources: https://www.thomasnelson.com/p/deep-rooted-marriage/

Y'all... This can't be happening...  And yet it is. Our special guest this episode is none other than Dr. Dan Allender, whom we are honored to call our friend, mentor, wise guide, and chief source of inspiration in everything we do at Nurture Counseling and here on the podcast.   We are beside ourselves with gratitude, and so thrilled for our listeners to get to experience Dan's wisdom, playfulness, kindness, winsomeness, and infectious passion for the redemptive work of the Gospel in marriages.  His newest book, The Deep-Rooted Marriage: Cultivating Intimacy, Healing, and Delight (co-written with fellow Christian couples therapist Dr. Steve Call)  comes out in a few weeks, and we know you will be blessed by the foretaste Dan provides in this 2 part interview.  Join us for a delightful and insightful conversation with Dan about the new ground that this book breaks (see what I did there?) by including a richer exploration of the effects that trauma and disappointment that we often bring into our marriages can have on our ability to navigate conflict and suffering when we encounter them. We'll consider how marriage and/or  raising a family can both draw out the worst in any of us, yet also uniquely offer us glimpses of heaven and the glory that God intends for His people.  And we hope that after meeting Dan in a more intimate setting like this, you, too, will be inspired, encouraged, and better equipped to bring the kindness and mercy of God to bear on both your own story and your spouse's. Oh, and you can pre-order The Deep-Rooted Marriage here to get access to some special companion resources: https://www.thomasnelson.com/p/deep-rooted-marriage/

Have we got a treat for you! Surviving Saturday is so excited to bring you our first podcast GUEST, the intrepid, insightful indomitable, and inimitable Dr. Christy Bauman! Christy joins Wendy for a delightful conversation about their respective journeys as women counseling other women dealing with issues and challenges they, themselves, know all too well. They also vibe strong on the transformative and healing power of "body work" (also known as "somatic experiencing") and healing rituals, as a complement to more narrative based "story work." Christy is a counselor, author, and teacher based out of Brevard, NC. She earned her Masters in Counseling at Reformed Theological Seminary and her Ph. D. in counseling at Seattle Pacific University. With her husband, Dr. Andrew Bauman, she is the co-founder and co-director of the Christian Counseling Center for Sexual Health & Trauma, and she has spent over 18 years counseling women dealing with the aftereffects of sexual and/or spiritual abuse. For more about Christy and her counseling work with women, check out her website at www.christybauman.com **IMPORTANT SCHEDULING UPDATE: Christy's "Her Rites" workshop in Charlotte will be held on Saturday, February 1 from 9:00 to 4:00, rather than the January date originally mentioned in the podcast, part 2. Additional info available at: www.christybauman.com/herrites

Have we got a treat for you!  Surviving Saturday is so excited to bring you our first podcast GUEST, the intrepid, insightful indomitable, and inimitable Dr. Christy Bauman!  Christy joins Wendy for a delightful conversation about their respective journeys as women counseling other women dealing with issues and challenges they, themselves, know all too well. They also vibe strong on the transformative and healing power of "body work" (also known as somatic experiencing" and healing rituals, as a complement to more narrative based "story work."  Christy is a counselor, author, and teacher based out of Brevard, NC.  She earned her Masters in Counseling at Reformed Theological Seminary and her Ph. D. in counseling at Seattle Pacific University.  With her husband, Dr. Andrew Bauman, she is the co-founder and co-director of the Christian Counseling Center for Sexual Health & Trauma, and she has spent over 18 years counseling women dealing with the aftereffects of sexual and/or spiritual abuse.   For more about Christy and her counseling work with women, check out her website at www.christybauman.com **IMPORTANT SCHEDULING UPDATE:  Christy's "Her Rites" workshop in Charlotte will be held on Saturday, February 1, 2025 from 9:00 to 4:00, rather than the January date originally mentioned in the podcast, part 2.  Additional info available at: www.christybauman.com/herrites

So maybe for a while now you have been exploring your story--the formative incidents from growing up that have left their mark on you, for both good and ill.  It's one thing to do that on your own, maybe even with the help of your favorite podcast. Some of you may have even experienced how story work goes to a whole different level when you do it one on one, under the care and guidance of a seasoned counselor like Wendy, or a story work coach like Chris. But why would anyone ever even THINK of diving down into the details of your story in a group setting?  Isn't that just a recipe for making you feel even greater shame?  Why would anyone EVER want to do that,  and how could it possibly make a difference in your healing journey? Join Wendy and Chris for Part 2 of this lively and frank discussion of the distinct ways that God has used story work groups to bring about deeper and longer lasting change and healing for each of them individually, as well as growth and greater intimacy in their marriage.  You might be surprised at how it works, and how you can experience similar healing and transformation.

So maybe for a while now you have been exploring your story--the formative incidents from growing up that have left their mark on you, for both good and ill.  It's one thing to do that on your own, maybe even with the help of your favorite podcast.   Some of you may have even experienced how story work goes to a whole different level when you do it one on one, under the care and guidance of a seasoned counselor like Wendy, or a story work coach like Chris.  But why would anyone ever even THINK of diving down into the details of your story in a group setting?  Isn't that just a recipe for making you feel even greater shame?  Why would anyone EVER want to do that,  and how could it possibly make a difference in your healing journey? Join Wendy and Chris for Part 1 of this lively and frank discussion of the distinct ways that God has used story work groups to bring about deeper and longer lasting change and healing for each of them individually, as well as growth and greater intimacy in their marriage.  You might be surprised at how it works, and how you can experience similar healing and transformation.