In this episode of The Sacred Speaks, host Dr. John W. Price sits down with pioneering therapist and author Terry Real, whose decades of work have redefined how we understand men, relationships, and emotional life.
Nearly thirty years after the release of his groundbreaking book I Don’t Want to Talk About It: Overcoming the Secret Legacy of Male Depression, Terry reflects on the evolution of men’s inner worlds, the cultural forces that still shape them, and the courageous work required to heal.
This conversation moves between the personal and the collective—between the suffering of individual men and the systems that taught them to suffer silently. Together, John and Terry explore how patriarchy has halved both men and women, severing men from their emotional lives, and how healing requires a return to connection, empathy, and embodied relational practice.
Through heartfelt stories, clinical insight, and grounded wisdom, Terry calls us toward a new model of masculinity—one rooted not in dominance or disconnection but in courage, accountability, and love.
This episode is an invitation to anyone longing to understand the hidden pain of men and the pathways toward relational wholeness.
Key Themes
-Male depression as a covert epidemic—often masked by addiction, anger, or withdrawal rather than sadness.
-How patriarchy teaches men to fear vulnerability and equate worth with production, control, and performance.
-The intergenerational inheritance of silence and shame between fathers and sons.
-Why true intimacy depends on empathy, humility, and repair—not dominance or emotional avoidance.
-The call for a new relational culture that honors interdependence and shared healing.
Time Stamps
00:00 – Introduction & framing the conversation
03:00 – Revisiting I Don’t Want to Talk About It nearly 30 years later
06:30 – How patriarchy harms men and the women who love them
10:45 – Understanding covert male depression
16:20 – The producer model: when net worth becomes self-worth
22:10 – Loneliness and the erosion of male friendship
29:40 – Family systems, shame, and the father wound
37:15 – Relational Life Therapy: a model for repair
44:00 – Vulnerability as strength
50:30 – Healing through accountability and compassion
58:00 – The future of masculinity and relational wholeness
Connect with Terry Real
Explore Terry’s courses and trainings in Relational Life Therapy (RLT) for both professionals and general audiences:
🌐 terryreal.com
🌐 relationallife.com
Connect with Dr. John W. Price
Website: https://drjohnwprice.com
Podcast: https://thesacredspeaks.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drjohnwprice/
If this conversation resonates, please like, share, and subscribe to The Sacred Speaks to support these ongoing dialogues at the crossroads of psyche, soul, and the sacred.
All content for The Sacred Speaks is the property of John Price and is served directly from their servers
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In this episode of The Sacred Speaks, host Dr. John W. Price sits down with pioneering therapist and author Terry Real, whose decades of work have redefined how we understand men, relationships, and emotional life.
Nearly thirty years after the release of his groundbreaking book I Don’t Want to Talk About It: Overcoming the Secret Legacy of Male Depression, Terry reflects on the evolution of men’s inner worlds, the cultural forces that still shape them, and the courageous work required to heal.
This conversation moves between the personal and the collective—between the suffering of individual men and the systems that taught them to suffer silently. Together, John and Terry explore how patriarchy has halved both men and women, severing men from their emotional lives, and how healing requires a return to connection, empathy, and embodied relational practice.
Through heartfelt stories, clinical insight, and grounded wisdom, Terry calls us toward a new model of masculinity—one rooted not in dominance or disconnection but in courage, accountability, and love.
This episode is an invitation to anyone longing to understand the hidden pain of men and the pathways toward relational wholeness.
Key Themes
-Male depression as a covert epidemic—often masked by addiction, anger, or withdrawal rather than sadness.
-How patriarchy teaches men to fear vulnerability and equate worth with production, control, and performance.
-The intergenerational inheritance of silence and shame between fathers and sons.
-Why true intimacy depends on empathy, humility, and repair—not dominance or emotional avoidance.
-The call for a new relational culture that honors interdependence and shared healing.
Time Stamps
00:00 – Introduction & framing the conversation
03:00 – Revisiting I Don’t Want to Talk About It nearly 30 years later
06:30 – How patriarchy harms men and the women who love them
10:45 – Understanding covert male depression
16:20 – The producer model: when net worth becomes self-worth
22:10 – Loneliness and the erosion of male friendship
29:40 – Family systems, shame, and the father wound
37:15 – Relational Life Therapy: a model for repair
44:00 – Vulnerability as strength
50:30 – Healing through accountability and compassion
58:00 – The future of masculinity and relational wholeness
Connect with Terry Real
Explore Terry’s courses and trainings in Relational Life Therapy (RLT) for both professionals and general audiences:
🌐 terryreal.com
🌐 relationallife.com
Connect with Dr. John W. Price
Website: https://drjohnwprice.com
Podcast: https://thesacredspeaks.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drjohnwprice/
If this conversation resonates, please like, share, and subscribe to The Sacred Speaks to support these ongoing dialogues at the crossroads of psyche, soul, and the sacred.
128 - Mirabai Starr: Ordinary Mysticism: Your Life as Sacred Ground
The Sacred Speaks
1 hour 22 minutes 6 seconds
1 month ago
128 - Mirabai Starr: Ordinary Mysticism: Your Life as Sacred Ground
In this episode of The Sacred Speaks, host Dr. John W. Price welcomes Mirabai Starr—acclaimed translator of the mystics, teacher of interspiritual wisdom, and luminous guide to the sacred woven through daily life. Together, they explore the heart of ordinary mysticism: discovering holiness not only in monasteries or mountaintops, but in the tender rhythms of our own existence.
Mirabai opens her story with radical honesty—her countercultural Jewish upbringing, alternative education, and the teachers and traditions that shaped her. The conversation turns to how rigid ideas of “being spiritual” can keep us from true intimacy with the divine, and how humility, humor, and embodiment restore us to a living spirituality. Mirabai shares how the death of her teenage daughter became a devastating but sacred initiation, revealing grief as one of the deepest portals into divine love.
Moving between ancient voices and her own life, Mirabai offers a mysticism that is fiercely tender, humble, embodied, and accessible to all. This dialogue invites us to see our own lives as sacred ground—woven with loss and beauty, pain and joy, shadow and wonder.
Key Takeaways
Mysticism is accessible in everyday life, not just in monasteries or religious settings.
Rigid religious or cultural ideas of “spirituality” can block authentic spiritual experience.
Embodiment and emotions—especially grief—are sacred entry points into deeper connection.
Translating the mystics is less about history than entering a living dialogue across time.
Friendship, humor, humility, and even money can be part of an integrated spiritual life.
In This Episode
(00:00) Introduction and Welcome
(00:20) Introducing Mirabai
(01:14) Mirabai’s Background and Influences
(02:30) Personal Tragedy and Grief
(03:21) Housekeeping and Announcements
(05:26) Interview with Mirabai Starr Begins
(07:33) Ordinary Mysticism and Everyday Spirituality
(08:54) Critique of Organized Religion
(13:38) Counterculture Upbringing and Influence
(18:39) Alternative Education and Teaching Philosophy
(23:29) Feminine Mysticism and Embodiment
(38:32) Translating the Mystics as Living Companions
(43:33) The Supernatural and the Natural
(45:55) Writing as Dialogic Spiritual Practice
(51:27) Grief and the Sacredness of Loss
(01:00:21) Writing as a Spiritual Path
(01:14:02) Navigating Money and Spirituality
(01:18:17) Closing Reflections & Resources
Connect with Mirabai Starr
Company: Wild Heart
Community: Holy Lament (online support for grief; opens twice yearly, next in Nov 2025)
Book: Ordinary Mysticism: Your Life as Sacred Ground (HarperOne, Sept 2025)
Earlier Works: Wild Mercy, Caravan of No Despair, her translations of Dark Night of the Soul and The Interior Castle, and more - check out Mirabai's website: mirabaistarr.com
Connect with John
Come and join, The Open Gate. Link on website
Website: https://drjohnwprice.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drjohnwprice/
The Sacred Speaks
In this episode of The Sacred Speaks, host Dr. John W. Price sits down with pioneering therapist and author Terry Real, whose decades of work have redefined how we understand men, relationships, and emotional life.
Nearly thirty years after the release of his groundbreaking book I Don’t Want to Talk About It: Overcoming the Secret Legacy of Male Depression, Terry reflects on the evolution of men’s inner worlds, the cultural forces that still shape them, and the courageous work required to heal.
This conversation moves between the personal and the collective—between the suffering of individual men and the systems that taught them to suffer silently. Together, John and Terry explore how patriarchy has halved both men and women, severing men from their emotional lives, and how healing requires a return to connection, empathy, and embodied relational practice.
Through heartfelt stories, clinical insight, and grounded wisdom, Terry calls us toward a new model of masculinity—one rooted not in dominance or disconnection but in courage, accountability, and love.
This episode is an invitation to anyone longing to understand the hidden pain of men and the pathways toward relational wholeness.
Key Themes
-Male depression as a covert epidemic—often masked by addiction, anger, or withdrawal rather than sadness.
-How patriarchy teaches men to fear vulnerability and equate worth with production, control, and performance.
-The intergenerational inheritance of silence and shame between fathers and sons.
-Why true intimacy depends on empathy, humility, and repair—not dominance or emotional avoidance.
-The call for a new relational culture that honors interdependence and shared healing.
Time Stamps
00:00 – Introduction & framing the conversation
03:00 – Revisiting I Don’t Want to Talk About It nearly 30 years later
06:30 – How patriarchy harms men and the women who love them
10:45 – Understanding covert male depression
16:20 – The producer model: when net worth becomes self-worth
22:10 – Loneliness and the erosion of male friendship
29:40 – Family systems, shame, and the father wound
37:15 – Relational Life Therapy: a model for repair
44:00 – Vulnerability as strength
50:30 – Healing through accountability and compassion
58:00 – The future of masculinity and relational wholeness
Connect with Terry Real
Explore Terry’s courses and trainings in Relational Life Therapy (RLT) for both professionals and general audiences:
🌐 terryreal.com
🌐 relationallife.com
Connect with Dr. John W. Price
Website: https://drjohnwprice.com
Podcast: https://thesacredspeaks.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drjohnwprice/
If this conversation resonates, please like, share, and subscribe to The Sacred Speaks to support these ongoing dialogues at the crossroads of psyche, soul, and the sacred.
