Melanie Cave interviews Chine McDonald, the director of Theos, a think tank focused on religion and society. They discuss the evolving role of religion in public life, the complexities of motherhood, and the representation of women in Christianity, particularly through the figure of the Virgin Mary. McDonald shares insights from her book 'Unmaking Mary', exploring the idealization of Mary and the implications of motherhood in contemporary society. The discussion also touches on the significance of the Black Madonna and the need for diverse representations of femininity in faith. Takeaways Motherhood is an all-consuming experience that shapes identity. The Virgin Mary is often idealised in Christianity, but her story is complex. Mary's representation can be limiting and does not reflect the diversity of motherhood. The Black Madonna represents marginalised voices and challenges traditional depictions of Mary. Motherhood and theology intersect in profound ways, influencing our understanding of God. There is societal pressure on women to meet unattainable ideals of motherhood. Grace is essential for navigating the challenges of motherhood and societal expectations. Diverse representations of women in faith can enrich our understanding of God. Show notes Chine's book, Unmaking Mary: Shattering the myth of perfect motherhood Motherhood vs the machine podcast God Is Not a White Man: And Other Revelations(Hodder & Stoughton, May 2021). Theos Chine's article in Roots: A tapestry of colour Explore Roots www.rootsforchurches.com   Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Chine McDonald and Theos Think Tank 03:50 The Role of Religion in Society 06:39 Exploring Motherhood and the Virgin Mary 09:30 The Idealisation of Mary in Christianity 12:06 Mary's Influence and Representation 14:21 The Intersection of Motherhood and Theology 16:50 The Black Madonna and Representation in Faith 19:15 The Broader Implications of Motherhood in Society 21:47 Conclusion and Reflections on Motherhood 50:19 Introduction to Roots and Resources