Alejandro sits down with Ray Pawson, Emeritus Professor at the University of Leeds and one of the founding thinkers behind realist evaluation and realist synthesis.

In this landmark conversation, Ray reflects on nearly three decades of realist evaluation and realist synthesis, from its beginnings in the 1990s to its role today across healthcare, policy, and social research. Together, they explore how realist evaluation first challenged the dominance of experimental methods and why healthcare became a crucial testing ground for these ideas. Ray discusses his notion of “Groundhog Day” in evaluation and the need for cumulative learning across studies, as well as the potential of realist synthesis as “evaluation without infrastructure.”

Looking ahead, he shares his vision for expanding realist work from programme evaluation to policy evaluation, urging researchers to think beyond isolated projects and towards a broader science of learning about what works, for whom, and in what circumstances.

Throughout the conversation, Ray’s characteristic humour and deep insight shine through, offering both historical perspective and practical wisdom. From his reflectionson the past to his hopes for the future, this episode captures what it truly means to “think like a realist.”