Artist and Musician David Halliwell shares his deep love, the ensuing grief, and the ongoing healing after his beautiful daughter Cat Halliwell was killed in a motor vehicle accident a decade ago.
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Shownotes:
Hello, everybody. I'm just so honored to be here today. I'm with David Halliwell, who is engaged to a person that I call my big sis. She's a fellow author, and we met each other last year, and we found out we had the same birthdays, and we've just really been joined at the hip. And she and David became engaged in the little bit latter part of their lives. So that's pretty exciting. We can talk a little bit about that. And the reason why David's here today is David is a grieving dad. I always say grieving does not go away because love never leaves and grief is love. We wouldn't grieve had we not loved so dearly. So David has graciously said yes, that we could have a little interview so that we can share his story. And it's twofold. Number one, I know that for many grieving parents, sharing your story is so important to continually be in that healing process and that grief process, but also to help others because there's so many. I was just on a call and you're in British Columbia, Canada, but in the US alone, the statistics a few years ago is that there are tens of thousands of children who die every year in the US.
So when we look worldwide, it's huge. So we know that there's a lot of grieving families out there. So we hope that our conversation today will help speak to your heart in some way and maybe help with a little healing. So, David, welcome. Welcome.
Thank you.
So why don't we start with... And David is... Let's just talk a little bit about you. Tell me a little bit about your musician and artist. Let's start there. Tell me a little bit about yourself.
Okay. Yeah, I am, in fact, a fine artist all my life and designer. And the music has always been a part of my soul. And we can talk about that later. But now it's more important than the art these days. And I found it very strange being a dad because I was always a solo gypsy troubadour act and hadn't even visualized having a family. Not that I was against it, but I just didn't see it in my role as a solo gypsy person. And then my beautiful daughter came along and changed everything forever. It brought things out in me and helped me grow in so many ways that I'm so grateful for now, of course.
Let's talk about your daughter. Yes. Catherine.
Catherine with a C. Let's start right there. When she was born, I said to her mom, Anyone who goes through labor and gives birth to a child deserves to name their child. So I had no ownership on the name. So she named her Catherine Honor Halliwell, which I thought was a fabulous name. And I said, Well, there are reasons I already knew that this kid was special and unique. So I said, Well, if I can just have a little bit of input, I'm going to take the E out of Catherine and make it Catherine with a C instead of a K. So her name was Catherine, not Catherine. And then when she was quite the character always from the get go, when she was about, I think, three years old, we were at Auntie Kathy's with a K. And Auntie Kathy said, Kathy, would you like some orange juice? And she put her little hand on her little hip and she said, I'm not a cat. I'm not a Kathy and I'm not a Katie. I'm a cat. So we all went, Well, that's it. She's a cat. And she was Cat, Halliwell, everyone after that.
That's so beautiful. I just love how children will actually step into their... I think when they're born, their name has already been chosen before they were even born. And then they just step into that beautiful presence of their name.
That would make sense, I think now to me. Yes. She was a Cat.
Okay. So you're married. You had this beautiful little girl. Tell us a little bit more about Cat and who she is, was, and her spirit and all of that. Just what young woman was she? Just share a little bit.
When she was born, the moment of birth, now, Mary and her mom had a Cesarean section after about 36 hours of trying to give birth naturally. And eventually, we all agreed that this should be done. So she had a Cesarean. I was in the operating theater, of course, by her side the whole time. So the nurse passed the swallowed baby to me first because Mariam had had an injection, so she was lying there still conscious. And I picked up and she had shining violet eyes. Yes, they were like little violet lamps. It was absolutely stunning. And I got to take her over to my home, met her baby that was the beginning for her.
You fell in love.
Oh, absolutely.
She was so cute. Fell in love. Daddy, daughter. I love it.
Yeah. And she was a bright spirit right from the get go. I mean, she was so ready. The funny thing is she ended up being a professional soccer player, an athlete generally, but soccer became her passion. And it's like right from the get go, she was saying, throw me a ball. Throw me a ball. Let's get into this game. She was such a bright spirit.
So beautiful. And I know you've shared pictures. I just got to see a picture of her up on the wall, and she's just vibrant gorgeous, lovely.
Yeah, just absolutely. Now, let's fast forward to 10 years ago. What happened 10 years ago?
Yeah, well, it happened 10 years ago. I think it's every parent's nightmare to get a call in the middle of the night to tell them that your child is in a hospital and it's looking very serious. It was like three or four o'clock in the morning when the phone rang and I had to get up lirio and get this message. And from there it was an insane dash to get from Vancouver over to Seattle to the Harbourview Hospital. I tried to get the ferry to the mainland because I was over here on Vancouver Island. But the ferry had just left as I pulled into the darkened lot. It was just one struggle after another. And I had to drive down to Seattle and get to the hospital. And it was hell. She had been in a car accident coming home from a concert in Washington late at night, and they hit black ice on the highway at two in the morning or something like that coming home to Vancouver. And the car flipped and her and her girlfriend and the guy who was driving her girlfriend's boyfriend were all thrown from the car. They survived with scratches and bruises, but the car fell on her and they had to helicopter her to Harbor Bridge.
Now I just want to mention her mom, God bless her. We divorced, I think it was about eight or nine years before this happened. And we had all settled into our singular lives and we were all connected and everything was fine. So she made her way down there and I made my way down there as we left instantly. And there we were. She was with her new partner. We were there for two days and two nights just praying. And she was lying on this operating table with wires and machines all hooked up to her, keeping her vital energy alive while she was gone, she was unconscious, in a comic state for two days. And in the end, they were a fabulous team working to try and save her life. But the injury was too much and she passed. And that was, I think, one of the hardest moments of our lives when we lost her and she was finally gone. And then we had an extra challenge because we had never discussed the concept of organ donation with her or each other. It had never been on our minds. We've never seen this coming. But we had to look at that seriously.
And it was very strange how miracles happened. We were getting messages. Mariam had her iPad phone thing. I'm digitally dyslexic, so she was doing all the Facebook posts, the emails, the Twitter calls that were coming in from around the world because the story had gone out. And Kat made friends all over the world to be traveled. Well, one of the messages that came in was from my cousin's friend who Kat was with in London. And he told us this story that they had discussed the concept of organ donation at lunch one day. And he said, he's a Londoner, regular guy. And he said to Kat, Oh, screw that. And Kat looked him square in the face like she did when she really wanted to get a point across. And she said, What do you mean, man? It's their F'ing no brainer. Somebody dies and nothing happens, or somebody dies and lives get saved. It's a no brainer. So we got that message from our daughter at that time. And that's when we looked at each other and said, Right, this is the right thing to do. Here we have this girl who's a perfect body, perfect system, perfect mind.
She never drank, she was an athlete, and her body was going to gift other people with life. And she saved five lives and gave two people sight with her beautiful blue eyes.
I have chills. I just awashed with such beautiful energy, truly beautiful energy, and how that message could come through at such a devastating time where you can't even think straight. That it's your beautiful daughter. What do you do? And what a gift. What a gift from heaven to have that message granted and that she lives on.
Right at that time, that message came to us and helped us with that. It was amazing. The little miracles that happened that you don't really get until after the fact when things settled down. Then if I can just mention as well, because this was a big, big moment, obviously. I said to the medical team that we had had two councilors with us for that two day. One was a Catholic priest because my religion is based in Catholicism. So there was a Catholic priest available, but he was working with us. And this wonderful young woman who was a lay person counselor who helped Mariam in considerably well. Anyway, cut to the chase, I said, before I signed these papers for this, that as her dad, I would want to be with her when this operation happened, just because I'm her dad. But I couldn't do it. I couldn't go in that room and watch this operation on my beautiful girl. So I said, if you will allow this Catholic priest to go in with the other counselor and say prayers for her before this happened for her soul. I said, I will sign these papers. And they agreed.
So I did. And he went in with the other counselor and said the last rites for her body. And there were six medical teams in the room ready to do these separate operations because you've got to get the organs quickly to where they're going to do their work. So they were all in the room and they said that there was a silent reverent around Cat, this beautiful girl while he said these prayers. And we found out later that this was the first time in American medical history that a religious ceremony has ever been allowed inside the operating room. That was the case. She was special and she got special treatment.
Of course.
My mom, who was the Catholic one in the family, was very, very happy and felt that.
What an absolute blessing to be able to have ceremony and starting right at that beginning because that is so important, we know, in the healing process. So, David, it's been 10 years. Are you willing to share a little bit about some of the high points and the low points? Because we know that grief is a roller coaster of emotions and affecting our lives. A little bit about what helped you over these last 10 years. How did you survive? That's the real question of how did you survive and what are the things that worked for you? And what are some of the things that maybe weren't so helpful during this 10 year period?
I think I have to confess in the beginning. Now, in the very beginning, I was being the guy. I was so busy taking care of the mom, the friends, other family members. I was the go to guy to help them get over this obstacle and didn't even think about myself, really, because that was my role at the time. But then after everything was over, I had to drive to Seattle to pick up the remainder of her ashes after the operation. And I brought that back to her mom, the family home on Salt Spring, where she grew up. Later, we shared these ashes, but we'll talk about that later. After that was all done and we had a fantastic memorial and life celebration on Salt Spring, I think there were 450 people came, and that was only the ones that could make it. There were people sending messages from around the world. We touched so many hearts. But when that was all over, I came back home to Victoria. And that's when I fell apart because I had no one else there to save or help or be focused on. And I confess I got into drinking and smoking marijuana and just died in my room.
Absolutely died in my room. And that went on for nearly a year. I went to work and came home because I had to, but I couldn't connect with anybody. I couldn't find a reason to get up and go. I was in a terrible state. I think there's several things that saved me. The first and foremost is that I do have a faith in God that I grew up with in my family and in my own personal experience. I've lived a spiritual life in my own way. I think it was that knowing the presence of God and that there was hope after disaster because I had seen it before in my life and other. But I started to get a sense of slap my face in the mirror, come on, Dave, what the hell are you doing here? You can't give up on life. And that's when that came to me in a dream with a very specific message. I had moved to Duncan. A friend in our circle of friends said, We have this family cabin in the countryside outside Duncan. Nobody's staying there right now. Maybe it will be a place today that you can find some peace, get out of the city.
So I did. I moved into this cabin and was trying to pick myself up. I wasn't doing a great job, but I was trying. And then I noticed that I was starting to get very sick in my intestines. Terrible pain and problems and going to the washroom became difficult. I started to think, Oh, my God. Do I have a cancer or something going on here? Is my grief manifesting in a physical way because I know it can do. So I got very scared. Now, I hate hospitalism. I hate doctors. Anyone who tells me that, that knows me. And I eat healthy food and keep a healthy mentality and drink lots of fresh water. So I was getting sicker and sicker and sicker and wondering, What the hell? I'm going to have to go to the hospital tomorrow morning, go to the emergency because something serious is going on. Well, that's the night that captured me in a dream. And I woke up in my dream. I was still asleep. I woke up in my dream and the water was running in the tap of the sink. I didn't leave that on. What's going on? So I get up and walk over to the sink and the water is just pouring into this sink.
And it smells funny. The water is smelling funny. And then the sink block and this sludgy water was filling up the sink and threatening to flood the sink. And I'm trying to turn the tap on and it won't turn on. Now I'm dreaming, of course, but this is all going on. And at that moment, I realized somebody's standing next to me. And I looked and right here, just like that photograph that you just saw, is my gorgeous daughter, shining, looking me right in the eye. And she pointed at the sink tap. And she said, Everything's going to be all right, Dad. You just need to take the pressure back a tap. I went, Oh, interesting. So I reached out and just touched the tab and it didn't empty the sink. It was clear, white, bright, shining, smelling, fresh sink. And I looked at her and smile and she looked me in the eyes again and said, Everything's going to be all right, Dad. And I wake up in bed going, What the hell was that? Where's Kat? I got up and ran outside looking for her because it was so real. Well, then I thought about, what was she telling me about this attack?
What was going on with the dirty sludgy? What's going on with that? So I phoned the landowner who knew the whole story about Kat, which that's why she offered me to have it. And she said, Well, that's strange because we've never had a problem with that Artisan well for 25 years. It's pure, pure water. But I'll get the guy in to check the water. And when she did, they discovered that some organic poison had gotten into the well. And I was drinking.
Poisoned water, thinking I'm getting fresh water to clean my system. And it was getting worse and worse and worse. So at that point, I went right and I went and bought some glassy water. The landlady got all well dressed. They got the whole world cleaned out, sort it out. But I stopped drinking that water. And within three days, there was no pain. And I've been healthy ever since. My daughter came to me and saved my life.
She saved your life.
Wow. Yeah. So that was the first turning point for me. I just knew the very fact that her spirit was still alive, communicating with me and giving me messages like this, so pertinent and so relevant in the moment, that gave me hope that her spirit was alive out there. And I turned a corner at that point, and that's when I stopped drinking. And I haven't drunk, but I've never been a drinker, but I stopped drinking. That was it. And started to get back into work. Now, I wasn't happy and glorious, but I had now a reason to believe in life again that she was still out there somewhere.
Yeah, I hope.
Yes. And you know the.
Other thing that happened? The greatest thing is love.
Well, love is the thing. It's all about love. We are all about love. And I just want to mention one thing, Pat, if I may, as my turning around. Shortly after that happened, I said to myself, Well, come on, Dave, just get up and go down to the coffee shop. Be with people. You don't have to connect with anyone. Let's start being with people again. Get out of this room. I've been dying in this room. So I did that. And I walked down to the coffee shop. And as I'm walking into the coffee shop, they wheeled this young man who was in a wheelchair. And he was one of these, forgive me, cerebral palsy, I think it is, like this. And as I passed him, he looked at me and he said, Isn't it a fantastic day? And I just cried. I just cried and I hugged him and I said, Thank you so much for that. And after he had left, I stood there and I looked at myself, perfect health, perfect physical specimen, perfect mind, friends to die for, family to die for, talent, opportunity. I had so much to live for. And this young man in that wheelchair was happier than me and more into life than I was at that moment.
That turned me around. That got me back to myself. And I started coming up again.
Oh, wow. There's just so much in what you just shared because going into that depth of despair is so common because the drinking and the smoking pot and whatever. I mean, that's that's not... When I'm working with people, it's like, don't shame your self for that. That's just a way of self medicating a trauma that's so crushing that it's just a way to survive during that period. But then you had this beautiful time with Kat and realizing that there is no true death. It's a transition but that she's here with you always. And caring and loving you so deeply and opening up your faith. And then you come across this gentleman in the wheelchair who to me is like an angel. It's like an angel sitting in that wheelchair just wanting to give you hope.
Yes, it was a blessing. It was a big blessing. At that moment, I needed a blessing like that. I needed my eyes to be opened again.
Oh, that's so beautiful. So you've been doing your art and music and all of that. And it's been 10 years now.
It was actually getting into the music that saved me and gave me a purpose again. And I did that because of something Kat said to me when she was here. She got to hear me play at the open stage on Salt Spring Island for the first time because I had never really done it. We were busy lives and I did it in the kitchen at night. And she heard me play and she came up to me, a teenage girl. You think she's going to be embarrassed? Oh God, dad's on stage. And then after I performed, she came up and she said, Dad, that was incredible. Dad, you wrote those songs. You should be doing your music, Dad. Never mind the art and all that other stuff. You should be doing your music. And I never forgot that. And that came back to me. And I thought, yeah, I'm going to take that from my girl because there's some reason in that other than me just wanting to spend time with the guitar. And as it happens, it's the music and the writing songs that have opened me up again and got me back into life again in so many ways.
Please forgive me. I'm going to grab a tissue.
That's okay. That's okay. Well, that's the beauty of this. And for people who are listening to this, I liken tears to grief is such a rocky, very hard. I liken it to a mountainside where there's ragged edges, right? And it's dangerous. And the fear of falling deep into the crevice of the mountains is just so devastating. But the tears to me just remind me of a waterfall, just constantly going over those rocks and smoothing the rough edges, allowing the rough edges to become smoother, shiner, and creating a new type of beauty. So out of the rag and this becomes this beautiful softening. And tears are so important. I know for my mother, who's a grieving mother, she never cried. And all of that stayed inside of her for so long. And it took her until 60 years after the death of my brother when I was finally able to communicate with her in a way that allowed her to open up those feelings. And she still hasn't cried, but she'll say to me, I'm crying inside. And it's like, okay, that's okay. It's okay. Whatever worked for you. But that's the beauty of I go back to if we had never loved, we would never grieve.
And so this grief is so important because it's a testimony of our love. And, David, there's just so much. I mean, you definitely have a story through your songs. And I know it's your beautiful paintings. And you found a medium, several different types of artistic medium to help you in your healing process and your faith and just getting this hope and this light in your life. And that's really why I want those people who are listening to us is you may be in the depths where David was and just feeling like there is no way I can get out of this. I've had more parents tell me versus not that they just wish they had died. They wish they could be dead. They wish that they could be. They can't imagine living without their child. That's common. I don't think it's suicidal ideation. I think that's just the reality is trying to figure out how you're going to live in this world without person who is so you love so deeply and you have so much love in your heart. So you may be, for those of you who are listening, in that deep, dark place.
But David is one he's been there. He's been so open and authentic and vulnerable, sharing his story with us to give you hope so that you can see this you have hope. There is hope and it's hanging on to that thread of faith. Whatever faith is for you, it's hanging on to that thread to help you so that you're not falling over the mountainside, that you're hanging on to that thread and having people that care for you, like these friends who offered you a place to stay, to help heal some of that deep brokenness. And then other people showing up in your life and then opening up yourself to hearing Kat and feeling Kat. I think when people are first grieving, it's very difficult for them to feel their loved one. And because you're in that insulated, I think that initial part of grief, it's trauma. Our mind just goes into lockdown and insulates you because it just needs to hold you together. And then as you start doing some healing and a little bit of repairing, then all of a sudden, if you can have that connection with your loved one, like you have with a cat, that to me is when healing really starts with all the people that I've worked with, once that they can realize death is not death.
I don't know how to explain that, but it's not like that's the end of the road and there's nothing more there.
That is the end.
Much more there.
And for the benefit of anyone who might be hearing, I'm not going to tell a story about some big stuff like it because I considered suicide when I was drinking in my room after the event. I considered suicide, and I am not a person to consider that. I'm a very upbeat, walking in faith, loving life person. But that deep, wide, aching chasm, a brief, was so terrible. I didn't know what to do with myself. And I considered driving off the mountain. It's funny you mentioned the mountain. I'm just going to drive my car off the cliff. I don't want to do this. It's too painful to do. Obviously, Kat's message to me saved me in doing that. And I hope she doesn't mind me mentioning in case she hears this, but her mom actually tried to commit suicide. She took a bottle of pills. This was our only child, and she was, of course, devastated. She took a bottle of pills. They rushed her to the hospital and pumped her stomach out and saved her life. And she was pissed off that they'd saved her life because she was in such a horrible place with the pain.
So there is no easy way through this, but there is a way through this. And Kat's messages helped us. And can I share another story?
Absolutely.
Now, this was on the anniversary of Kat's death that we always spoke to each other. Remember, we're divorced, separated, but it brought us together as friends because of Kat and her legacy. So I get this phone call from her mom at three o'clock in the morning and she said, you're not going to believe this. Now, I'll just fill you in. Mariam had become depressed and suicidal. She'd given up on life. She was doing daily... What the hell? All her friends were saying, we've given up trying to reach her. She's angry, depressed. It's insane. There's no reaching her. Well, Kat came to her in a dream, and this is what she said, Mum, love is the food and the fuel of the afterlife from us and to us. And Mariam wrote this message down in the middle of the night. And she phoned me and she said that was Kat. It was her. There was no doubt about it.
Now, after she had had time to actually digest those words and the connot of those words, it saved her completely. And she said now she gets up every morning and sends love to Kat in the afterlife. But she knows her spirit is alive and still loving us and caring about us. So she saved her mom's life with that message. And that message is touched a lot of people too.
Love is.
The food and the fuel of the afterlife, from us and to us. There is a place called the afterlife that our spirits go to. This is what I get from this. She is still there alive and loving us, and we can send her love to from here.
Beautiful. I wrote it down. Is that all right?
Absolutely. Please share it with anyone.
I would love to share that because that's what we said. Faith, hope, and love and love is the greatest of these. There's a reason some of these sayings and biblical sayings and all of that have hung around for thousands and thousands and thousands of years is because they're so true. And love really is what cats love for you. And to have saved both of our parents' lives. And I would imagine that she knew so many people. There's probably more that she could save that you probably have never even heard of. That she's probably doing her magic throughout the world with lots of friends.
In actual fact, there are other stories of her touching other people, her favorite people. She came to them, too.
Yeah. And so that's really a it. I am so appreciative of you sharing this. Now, I hope you don't mind, but I know from your dear fiance, the 10 year anniversary was a little bit more difficult. True?
Yes, it was. I don't know why, but it all came back like a ton of bricks on me. I cannot explain why because I've been actually working my way out of grief and back into life. And then I meet this beautiful young man. There's a whole new hope in my life. But something happened. And as it happened, I was called to write a letter to Kat as a therapeutic tool to help me with all this. I wrote that letter. I went and meditated at my studio and actually stayed there for a couple of days to get myself around it. And I wrote a 21 page letter to Kat. And in that letter, I purged my heart and purged my feelings. And it really, really helped something. I can't explain why. Judy could probably explain it better than me because she works in this therapy and I'm totally appalling. But it changed something, Pat. It changed something. And I felt like a bus had been lifted off my back. And it was that letter was art therapy, if you like. Now, I just want to mention, I have worked with art therapy, helping people with social problems, abuse victims, recovering drug addict, alcoholics, using art and music as therapy.
And I had never applied this to myself, ever, because I was always using it to help others. But this was my time to do that therapy with myself. And writing that letter, I don't know what happened, but I feel like a completely new starter. So I would recommend that to anyone who's dealing with this.
Yeah. And as you mentioned that now, I just sent you my book.
Thank you so much.
But that's part of what I actually have just for people who... This is my book is how do I survive seven steps of living after child loss. And that's part of one of the exercises that I have my clients do, and that I have in the book is write the letter to your child, not about your child, but to your child, but truly having that communication because, again, it's having that spiritual connection. I am such a strong believer in energy and knowing that energy transforms at a constant rate constantly. Our energy is always transforming. And so with death, it's a transformation. It's moving into another energetic form. And once we are able to, some people say, connect beyond the veil or raise our consciousness or get to a higher dimension, we can then meet up with that. I know for myself that I've had that experience so many times, but you are the walking talking truth of this is what can occur once you're able to open up your mind and your heart is connecting and with your child, with your loved ones so that it's not that you're alone. You miss that physical and that will always be that grief that you're dealing with.
Grief doesn't go away. You have healing periods in the 10 years. I appreciate that you are talking about that. I have a girlfriend where it was 10 years last year, and her 10th year was the most difficult year for her because 10 years seems like a long time. And part of it is the fear of forgetting or maybe moving away from it. And I just knew that that 10th year, I just intuitively knew it was going to be very difficult for her. And so I made sure that I was there even more for her during this time. And we were able to really talk about her son. And so I think those are some of those first, the 10 year anniversary. That's a first. You're always going to have these things. The hard.
Part of all that was birthdays and Christmas. When her birthday comes around and Christmas comes around, we fall apart again. Every year that happened. Things have just shifted.
What kind of things, I'm just going to ask you this, have you created any a special way of dealing with her birthday, celebrating her, or whatever, even your own personal ceremony, whatever that is during these times? Because I know that we want to always keep our loved one alive and their memories alive. So what do you do when it is her birthday or it's Christmas?
Yes, that is relevant actually, because every year that comes around, there is a place here on Dallas Road called Fonyo Beach. Now, Catherine was in Victoria at one point in the Victoria Lady's Sophie, and she lived here for a while. So Fonyo Beach was a place we remember. So we spread some of her ashes, a little vial of her ashes, on Fonyo Beach as a pilgrimage spot to go and be there with her. And every year, I take a red rose down to Fonyo Beach and plant it in the sand for the ocean to come and take it away. And I sit and talk with her and pray and feel her presence in that way. And that's a ritual now for me on her birthday.
That's beautiful. And I really highly recommend that for any of you who are grieving out there is find whatever it is for you that feels right for you. Some people may have a birthday cake and actually do a birthday celebration with their families. Others may have these private ceremonies like you do, just connecting and reflecting and knowing. And if your friend has experienced this deep loss, just be cognizant of that and just be there for them in whatever way that they want to be. So if they want to be silent and do it in a silent, then just hold the space for them to do that and surround them and love. My friend that I was talking about, she does a big motorcycle rally and raises money for the military. The veterans. And so she does that every year. And now it's the 11th year she's doing it. So she does that. So as a friend, I'm going to be there and help volunteer in that. So if you are friend or family members of grieving parents, just be there for them. You talked about your cat's mom, and some of her friends started falling away because they had tried so hard.
And if you are a friend or family member of someone where it feels like you just can't get through, then pray. Hold them in love because that is an energy that can help them and be there for them when they're ready to come out of that shell and re emerge into life. Be there for them without judgment. Without their love.
I know you already know this, but everybody grieves differently, too. And you've got to just let them be who they are, what they're doing in their grief.
And I know you've mentioned to me, too, I think it was, were you connected with Compassionate friends? Yes. Is that a good group for you?
I actually, yeah. This happened just after Mariam got her message from her daughter that I had heard about the Compassionate Friends group and said, Well, I'm going to go down and check them out, see what's going on there. So I did. And in actual fact, it was another opportunity for Catherine to send a message. And if you want, I'll share that story. Yeah. Okay. The first evening, now Compassionate friends are all people who have lost children. If you haven't lost a child, you don't understand what this grief is all about. Losing a loved one, losing a sibling, losing your parents. It's all grief. There's no big grief or small grief. But losing a child somehow has this special depth to it. And so they all gather to support each other. So the routine is, and this is my first evening there, we sit in a circle of chairs in the room. There was about 15 or 16 people. And everyone has an opportunity to speak and share their feelings. And it doesn't matter if you want to swear at God or tell stories of your loved one or relive the nightmare of the death.
It doesn't matter what it is. Everyone just holds that sight until it's their turn. Well, we went around the circle a little bit, and the first thing I discovered was that I thought I had the worst story in the room, and I found out that, no, I didn't have the worst story. There were other stories I wouldn't even go into that were far worse. So that in itself was a help to me with my grief. But I told the story of love is the food and the fuel of the afterlife, the message she sent to her mom, and it touched everybody in the room. Now quickly, the first evening, there was a young woman sitting by herself over by the door on a chair crying, but wasn't part of the circle. And the lady next to me said she just lost her only son a month ago, one month ago. She said she can't speak or do anything, but she heard about us. She just wants to be in the room. So we held that space for her. Okay, cut to the chase. A month later, the next meeting. So I went to the second meeting and we're sitting in the circle and that young woman wasn't there.
But she walked into the room halfway through the meeting and interrupted the meeting and apologized for interrupting. But she said, I just had to come tonight to talk to you, David. And I went, What? I didn't know this one. What did I do? You know what I mean? What's going on? She said, Your daughter, Kat, came to me and spoke to me in a dream. And she said, Tell my dad, I know my dad's having a hard time. Tell my dad I'm okay. But she said, I really came for you because I'm here in the afterlife with your son, David, incidentally, and I'm taking care of him in the afterlife. Your son has got a message for you. And the message for you. The message is you must not give up on life. And that's when she broke down and she said, I was contemplating suicide. The pain was too much for her and she was going to end it. And Kat stopped her from committing suicide. And as far as I know, because I haven't been in touch since, as far as I know, she made it through because of Katherine's message, which touched everybody in the room again.
So you did not give up on life.
And this girl of yours, her purpose is so much even bigger in the afterlife. I mean, she really is this beacon of light and hope and, oh, my gosh. And this strength that she has to just really come forward and say, hey, we're going to help you in this process because you need to know up here, we're all doing well.
We're all fine up here.
Yeah. We're dancing and having a great time. And we love you. And it's like, Kat is not going to let anybody ever forget that they are loved. Right. Ever. Oh, that is just so powerful.
It's incredible. And Kat, she was such a darling heart always. She took care of everybody. She loved her friends, loved her cats, loved the dragonflies. She was such a beacon of love and caring. And her mom and I, Jo, actually had our first laugh that she now is working in the afterlife taking care of everybody out there because that was her nature down here.
What a beautiful soul. I feel like I know her. I just can feel her energy and her deep love. Your message here today is just so incredible. And I know that it's going to get out to so many people, David. And I am just so grateful. I'm so grateful that you allowed me to sit in this space in the honor of listening to your story. Thank you. You are in my heart. Kat is in my heart. All of you are so deeply because this is why we're here. We're here to share that there's more to life than this. It's so much bigger and love is the overriding. This is if we love and we hold love and we share our love, this is how we all heal. This is where the healing comes from. Wow. We've spent an hour here. Can you believe it? Oh, I can't believe it. Isn't that awesome? It's not awesome. It's not awesome because I just have to share. David was a little bit nervous, like, Oh, my gosh. I can get up on stage and sing and do my music. And this is a little unnerving for me. But this is the beauty of sharing and being able to hold space for one another is that time just flows.
And that's the other thing is I was telling my friend where it had been 10 years since Ben had died, and I said, 10 years on this earthly realm seems like a long period of time. But I think that in that other dimension and the after, it's just a split second. It's like they haven't been gone and so it's a split second. Something seemed so long and taking such time, but just knowing that really there's never an ending. This is a never-ending love. Your children are always with you and love you as deeply and desperately as you love them. And that hang on to that. Hang on to that, hang on to that. And know that there are so many people, like compassionate friends. There are the Davids of the world that I know he would sit down and talk to anybody who's a grieving parent and a grieving dad and hold space because people did it for him. There's people like his beautiful love and fiance, Juney. They got engaged at the age of 70, which was so uber cool. It's so awesome. I can't even express how absolutely thrilled I am for the both of you to be able to enjoy this love.
I'm 62, so I'm a little bit younger than them, but still to be able to have this... They're just so in love. It's just beyond belief. But Juney, there's people like his fiancée, Juney. She's a psychotherapist, she's a writing coach, and she helps people express themselves and express the stories like what David just shared and express them in writing books and different things like that. So I'm going to make sure that I have contact information and also for David's work. I mean, he sells paintings. He does some of that. So I want to have all of that in here. So I'll make sure that all of that is there. How you can be in contact with Descanse Jr. If you're interested in writing your story or figuring out how to write story. I mentioned that I have this book, How do I Survive? Seven Steps for Living After Child Loss. Again, I am not, and I'm just going to explain that real quick. I am not the person who experienced the death of a child. I was a child born into a grieving family. So it's a little bit different perspective. But when we talk about spiritual connection, I believe that my brother was reborn.
I know that it's not a belief. It's a knowing that he was reborn through me because my life purpose, my soul's purpose, our soul's purpose is to be here and help heal family grief and to help parents. Because I can't say that I know what it feels like I don't. And I hope to God I never have to experience this. But what I know is I have had the honor of working with so many grieving parents, and they've shared their stories, and they've shared different things that have worked for them. And what hasn't, and I've been the scribe, I've taken all of their wisdom and put it into a book to help other people. So I'm not the expert. The experts who wrote this are all the people like the Davids of the world. I was prescribed. I took it and I'm here to hold space and be that container to help as you're walking through this very difficult path of child loss. So, David, I love you. I love Junee. I am just so honored and so blessed to know you and that Juney came in my life. I know that we're all connected here.
I'm getting tears in my eyes. I feel like Kat's right here like, oh, this is so cool. I love you all so much. And thank you. Thank you for doing me the honor of this interview.
You're very welcome.
Contact us:
Cami Thelander: www.bearfootyogi.com
The Confident Grief Coach School: www.healingfamilygrief.com