In this episode, the NCETM’s Dr Jen Shearman, Paul Rowlandson and Sue Evans discuss the upcoming EEF-funded trials of two important Maths Hubs programmes in 2025/26. The conversation explores the role of external evaluation, the challenges of conducting randomised controlled trials (RCTs), and what the findings could mean for maths education. A transcript (PDF) of this episode is available to download. Show notes Taking part in the discussion: Jen Shearman, Director for Evaluation and Impact, NCETM Sue Evans, Assistant Director for Primary, NCETM Paul Rowlandson, Assistant Director for School and Professional Development, NCETM Julia Thomson, Senior Communications and Marketing Manager, NCETM. Episode chapters 00:00 Introduction and welcome 01:12 Meet the team and overview of the EEF trials 01:57 Understanding the EEF and its role 03:31 The NCETM's involvement with the EEF 06:11 Introduction to the SKTM Secondary Non-specialist Teachers Programme 09:28 Introduction to the Mastering Number at Reception and KS1 Programme 12:02 Challenges in conducting the trials 22:01 Hopes and expectations from the trials 31:04 Conclusion and how to get involved. Useful links Specialist Knowledge for Teaching Mathematics Secondary Non-specialist Teachers Programme Mastering Number at Reception and KS1 Mastering Number at KS2 Blog post on the EEF trials: Going for gold standard Evaluating our programmes in 2025/26 EEF trial of the Secondary Non-specialist Teachers SKTM Programme EEF trial of the Mastering Number at Reception and KS1 Programme TIMMS 2023 Report Coordinating mathematical success: the mathematics subject report (2023) Explore previous episodes of the NCETM podcast in our archive.