In this rich and layered conversation, Professor Peggy Kern joins Frank Lawton to explore what wellbeing really means — beyond fleeting happiness or individualistic self-help ideals. Drawing from her deep background in positive psychology, health psychology, and systems science, Kern presents a nuanced, contextual model of human thriving. She explains the Dual Continuum Model, where ill-being and wellbeing are not opposites, but dimensions that can coexist. A person can struggle with mental illness and still live a meaningful, values-aligned life. This insight reframes how we understand resilience, recovery, and human potential. Kern critiques traditional positive psychology’s focus on individual flourishing, arguing for a more collective and systems-informed approach. She highlights how contextual factors like school culture, leadership involvement, and community belonging fundamentally shape wellbeing outcomes. Change, she insists, must often start with those in power — especially school leaders — to meaningfully support the whole community. Themes of dialectics (acceptance and change), belonging, strengths-based language, and the pitfalls of commodified self-care run throughout the conversation. Peggy also shares her own lived experience with mental illness and how that journey informs her understanding of what it means to truly live well — with contentment, not just happiness. Mindform is an exclusive membership platform that gives you access to an ever-expanding toolkit for mental mastery and a community of passionate psychitects. Apply to join Mindform or get the free Psychitect’s Toolkit at https://mindform.io/podcast