Brittany Arthur (Design Thinking Japan) join the Legal Ops Podcast.Q:What? A: Design thinking is a process for solving complex problems by focusing on human needs first, then exploring possibilities, prototyping solutions, and iterating. Q: Why? A: In an increasingly AI-driven conversation where people are pushing solutions that may not be adopted (especially in legal technology), push back and stay focused on the human (in the loop or otherwise!) that has a business problem to be solved.Q: When? A: Right now. Do it. Push play.---Other notable highlights: - Strategy and effective rollout of AI in large organizations (hint: value multipliers and strategic enablers like legal and legal ops can accelerate a lot of this)- How to think about AI- Questioning "What comes after AI"?- Shohei Ohtani- Brittany's ability to generate value with a bat...
Phil drops by the Legal Ops Podcast. Once an aspiring artist and comicbook-preneur, he moved on to become a tech-savvy law dragon, and most recently - ambidextrous dad.
This episode features:
-The secret origin of his ambidexterity: chopsticks, parenting, and boiled eggs, all starring his left hand (and sometimes, his right—blowing minds at family dinners).\
- Epic tales from the legal trenches: from being told he’d never make management to turning down director gigs.- Behind-the-scenes insights from his role building a cutting-edge e-discovery department.
- Community building, networking, and the (in)famous "Legal Tech Mafia": early morning runs, big ideas, and laughs.
- Servant leadership in action: why giving his time to team members means more than any process or checklist.
- How imposter syndrome pops up—and how creativity makes problems solvable and tech solutions cheaper (like, $480k cheaper).
Bonus round: secret art skills, geeky tattoo stories, and candid banter that proves legal technology can actually be fun, fast, and friendly.
Matt Lhoumeau, the CEO of Concord Worldwide, joins the Legal Ops Podcast.
You should listen if you want to hear about:
- His interesting story in the United States
- The (un)importance of previous accomplishments and certifications
- The CD v. MP3 shift- Controversial opinions on contracts (yes, really)
- The value of the human touch in the age of AI
- 0 legal teams, data trading, and NDA absorption?
Concord: https://eu1.hubs.ly/H0lTSrr0
Harry Borovick, GC of Luminance, Author and Educator joins the Podcast.
Highlights:
1. “People don’t want drills, they want holes.” -Richard Susskind
Harry channels Richard Susskind, and then notes that clients care about outcomes, not the tools or processes behind them. A mindset shift towards results seems more relevant than ever in the age of AI, but is this all so simple?
“The idea is...people are more interested in the outcome than the process to achieve it. That’s why you often hear the terminology, you know, the black box problem...”
2. The Rise of the Tech-Enabled, Emotionally Intelligent Lawyer
Harry gets real about the future of law: it’s not just about knowing the law or using AI, but about soft skills and empathy. Lawyers are often a powerful support system for clients, and the argument here is: AI—no matter how advanced—can’t replace the human touch.
“What most people want from their lawyer is one of two things: the correct answer delivered rapidly, concisely, in an applicable manner, and...an emotional crutch essentially, an emotional support system for the client.”
3. Why Legal Education Needs a Revolution
Harry critiques traditional legal education, arguing that law schools are failing to prepare students for the realities of modern practice. He calls for universities to embed technology and practical skills into the curriculum, and shares how he’s actively working to bridge that gap.
“There are an enormous amount of academic institutions and very few preparing students...(for what the) professsion is going to be...Learning lots of cases doesn’t actually make you able to... have a great deal of experience interviewing a client to
Why Listen?
1) Fresh perspectives on what it means to be a lawyer in 2025 and beyond.
2) Actionable insights for law students, educators, and hiring managers.
3) Real talk about the intersection of tech, empathy, and business in legal practice.
Jane Oxley, the Chief Revenue Officer of Smokeball joins the Legal Ops Podcast. Highlights:- What is pizza anyway? - How well do you know legal trivia? (a.k.a. Do you recognize the name Smokeball?) - The early days of a startup can be hard, but that is harder if you don't have a good winter coat. - How important is it to stay focused? How critical are early adopters? (Spoiler: Very. Very very.) - Legal professionals may be more prone to use advanced technology when it is baked into things in a seamless way. - Are there differences in approach to when dealing with a small law firm v. a larger corporation? - Can this all be easy peezy?
In this Pulse episode, Daryl and Elliot discuss:
JP Biard, the Chief Global Strategy Officer at LegalOn Technologies joins the Legal Ops Podcast. Highlights:- How much has LegalOn grown?- Why do people go to law school? What does technology have to say about that?- Are lawyers reluctant to adopt new technology?- What has LegalOn's evolution been, and how is that different from other players in this space?- What is the real impact of contract lifecycle management systems? Or, who gets the most benefit?- Isn't the art of the possible just a flowery way to say "education"?- What is the power of playbooks?- What are the differences in lawyers across geographies?
After a long break, Elliot and Alex are back. Where did they go? What were they doing? And who is this other guy?
This episode features...
1). Who is this other guy? Introducing Daryl Osuch. 2). 2024 Year in Review: a lookback that features highly critical and mostly arbitrary scores on a scale of 1 (Wrong, and you will laugh about this later) to 10 (Right, and I am scared of your apparent prescience). Alex spent Christmas building small language model apps, Daryl defends LLM mistakes, and Elliot determines we all did pretty poorly. 3). 2025 Predictions: Daryl holds a surprise spelling quiz, We make oblique references to 80's movies that you may or may not catch, and Elliot opines on the GenAI hype cycle. 4). What's next?Dee Venello is a senior operations professional at Commvault. She has implemented contracting systems and other legal technology in multiple organizations, carefully managing diverse stakeholders with a variety of interests and workflows. She also has experience in general business operations, providing her with insight into the issues and concerns faced by teams that the legal department supports.
A big thanks to LinkSquares for sponsoring this episode and for recommending Dee as a guest of the show. We discussed with Dee why LinkSquares was selected by two of her employers as the primary contracting solution for the organization.
We also discussed a range of related issues, including:
* The importance of CLM in general
* Why change management is vital in any technology implementation
* The value of cross-functional understanding and partnerships
* How CLM liberates data, and what to do with it
* Driving continuous improvement and "planning to plan"
LINKS
LinkSquares website: https://linksquares.com
Dee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dee-venello-74090a40/
Alex and Elliot chat about:
* how to craft an organizational AI policy
* a recent tribunal decision requiring Air Canada to honor a refund policy invented by its online chatbot
* recent articles on AI's impact on law firm billing and a potential shift towards value-based pricing
* another recent article on the need to balance AI's precision with human insight in the practice of law
A big thanks to LinkSquares for sponsoring this episode! Check out their website at: https://linksquares.com/
LINKS
Air Canada decision: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/02/air-canada-must-honor-refund-policy-invented-by-airlines-chatbot/
AI impact on billing - article 1: https://www.legalfutures.co.uk/latest-news/ai-could-transform-law-firm-billing-beyond-recognition
AI impact on billing - article 2: https://www.legaldive.com/news/ai-use-cases-legal-ops-deloitte-blickstein-group-report/702436/
Balancing AI and human strengths in legal practice: https://www.law.com/legaltechnews/2024/02/12/the-future-of-tech-enabled-law-practice-balancing-ais-precision-with-human-insight/
At the start of 2024 Jenn McCarron became President of the Board of the Corporate Legal Operations Consortium (CLOC), succeeding Mike Haven. We invited Jenn back on to the show to discuss:
* the process of becoming President
* the factors she considered in weighing up the role
* CLOC's role in the legal ops community, and how it has developed over time
* what changes we can expect in the future under Jenn's leadership
* the extent to which Jenn's background in entertainment will be relevant to her role
We also continued our tradition of beginning the year with predictions, and we invited Jenn to join us in making some of her own and assessing ours. These are some of the topics we discussed:
* legal ops as a partner to the business, not just the legal team
* continued growth in the importance of data and analytics
* focus on enterprise technology rather than legal point solutions
* future use cases for artificial intelligence
* the importance of managing AI risks
LINKS
Jenn on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennmccarron
Jenn’s phone screen (discussed at 30 minutes and 40 seconds into the recording): http://tinyurl.com/5hem49yp
Alex and Elliot discuss:
* The recent leadership challenges at OpenAI and what, if anything, it means for the pace of AI development and adoption
* A review of podcast episodes during 2023, their favourites and why
* Musings on expectations for 2024
* Elliot's continuing work on the "AI for legal teams" training course, which will be published in early 2024 under the Legal Ops Institute brand
This is our last episode for 2023. A big thanks for listening to the show - we'll be back in late January or early February 2024.
LINKS
Legal Ops Institute: https://www.legalops.fm/institute
Noah Waisberg is the co-founder and CEO of Zuva.ai and the former co-founder and CEO of Kira Systems. He has worked for more than a decade on artificial intelligence and its application in the legal industry, beginning his work long before anyone had heard of Transformers and GPT.
He is also the author of two books on artificial intelligence: "AI for Lawyers" which, as the title suggests, is focused on AI and its use by lawyers; and "Robbie the Robot Learns to Read", likely the first children's book aiming to teach younger readers about machine learning concepts.
Naturally, with Noah we discussed many issues related to artificial intelligence, including:
* What it was like selling AI systems to lawyers in the early 2010s
* How AI adds value in the legal industry
* The ability of AI to capture, distribute and amplify legal expertise
* Jevons paradox and how it relates to AI in the legal industry
* The role of generative AI in contract review and other legal use cases
* The extent to which generative AI levels the legal tech playing field
LINKS
Noah on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahwaisberg
Noah on X: https://twitter.com/nwaisb
"AI for lawyers" book: https://tinyurl.com/mx4t5nh6
"Robbie the Robot Learns to Read" book: https://tinyurl.com/3c9pjf6r
Alex and Elliot discuss:
* A recent article looking at the effects of AI on productivity and quality of work by consultants at the Boston Consulting Group
* A study by an English law firm finding poor legal advice provided by various Large Language Models, including GPT and Bard
* A recent article discussing whether or not generative AI will be a source of competitive advantage for law firms
* Elliot's anguish, and enjoyment, producing material for the upcoming "AI for legal teams" training course, which will soon be the first course published by the Legal Ops Institute
A big thanks to our friends at LinkSquares for sponsoring this episode. For more information, check out their website: https://linksquares.com/
LINKS
Article on AI used by BCG consultants: https://www.mi-3.com.au/20-09-2023/harvard-business-school-study-bcg-finds-knowledge-workers-using-chat-gpt-outperform
Law firm research paper on AI providing legal advice: https://lpscdn.linklaters.com/-/media/files/document-store/pdf/uk/2023/october/report_linksai-english-law-benchmark_october-2023.ashx?rev=fc8c65ae-00f6-408e-9aec-4bf7846f82db&extension=pdf
Article on generative AI and law firm competitive advantage: https://www.law.com/legaltechnews/2023/10/30/for-law-firms-will-generative-ai-really-be-a-major-competitive-differentiator/
Legal Ops Institute sneak peak: https://www.legalops.fm/institute
In this Talking Tech episode Alex and Elliot speak with Tim Parilla and Ashlyn Donohue from LinkSquares. LinkSquares helps organizations streamline contract management and drive efficiencies for contract-related workflows with an all-in-one CLM and legal project management platform.
In addition to learning about the LinksSquares product, we discuss a range of important issues including how to get buy in for a CLM implementation, which parts of an organization are the main beneficiaries of a CLM system and why data is so valuable to legal teams.
LINKS
LinkSquares website: https://linksquares.com/
Tim Parilla on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tim-parilla-64a4b36/
Ashlyn Donohue on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashlyn-donohue-098aa31b
Cockpit Counsel podcast on Apple Podcasts: https://tinyurl.com/456zmn84
Cockpit Counsel podcast on Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/27em7e4p
Microsoft is one of the most innovative and widely recognised companies in the world. How does an organisation with this level of scale and success think about legal operations? What are its strategic initiatives and thought leadership that the legal ops community can learn from? To what extent is its legal department leveraging AI and other cutting edge tools to drive efficiencies and optimization?
These are among the topics we discussed with Lydia Petrakis and Tom Orrison. Lydia is a Senior Corporate Counsel and Digital Strategist focused on issues of strategy, innovation and planning as they affect the legal team. Tom is a Senior Director of Legal Operations focused on contracting, procurement, productivity solutions and support services. Both work in Microsoft's Corporate, External and Legal Affairs (CELA) department, one of the largest of its kind in the world.
Other topics we discussed with Lydia and Tom include:
* How the legal team is leveraging AI
* The vital importance of data
* The importance of understanding, and documenting, process
* How to prepare lawyers and legal teams for change
* How automation is adopted differently across three major work types: transact, comply and advise
LINKS
Lydia on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lydiapetrakis/
Tom on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-orrison-873ba04/
Alex and Elliot discuss:
* A recent article by Ironclad's CEO arguing that AI is entering its "Napster phase"
* ChatGPT now having access to current information via the internet
* Recent trips to Japan, observations on intake systems in daily Japanese life and its implications for legal workflows
* Elliot's new MacBook Air and Alex's ruminations on various Apple products
LINKS
Article on AI entering its Napster phase: https://www.fastcompany.com/90942310/ai-napster-who-going-to-own-it-next
ChatGPT can now access the internet: https://www.zdnet.com/article/chatgpt-can-finally-access-the-internet-in-real-time-but-theres-a-catch/
Justin Hectus is a co-founder and Chief Information Officer at Keesal Propulsion Labs, a consultancy focused on technology and automation of legal processes.
With Justin we discussed many aspects of building and delivering technology for legal teams, including:
* How to ensure your team stays focused on the core mission and goals
* The importance of knowing and understanding your end customer
* Shipping early and iterating fast
* The future of custom built legal solutions
* How to build and retain a team of star players
* Developing and cross-training talent through music, art and side hustles
LINKS
Justin on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinhectus
Alex and Elliot discuss:
* Introduction to the Legal Ops Institute, essential learnings for legal changemakers brought to you by the podcast
* Thumbs up emoji used to accept a contract
* Generative AI could reduce law firm revenue by 23.5%
* 62% of legal professionals are not using AI
* 2023 Asia-Pacific Legal Innovation and Technology Association (ALITA) Awards
LINKS
Legal Ops Institute: https://www.legalops.fm/institute
Thumbs up emoji: https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/thumbs-up-emoji-can-represent-contract-acceptance-sask-court-finds-1.1941866
Generative AI reducing law firm revenue: https://www.geeklawblog.com/2023/08/generative-ai-could-reduce-law-firm-revenue-by-23-5.html
Legal professionals not using AI: https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20230727977407/en/%C2%A062-of-Legal-Professionals-Are-Not-Using-AI-%E2%80%94-And-Feel-The-Industry-Is-Not-Ready-For-The-Technology
2023 ALITA Awards: https://alita.legal/alita-awards-2023
Alex and Elliot are joined by Tom Stephenson, host of the Dear Legal Ops podcast, to discuss:
* the evolution of legal operations
* career progression for legal ops professionals
* the intersection of tech, ops and people
* the strength of the legal ops community
LINKS
Tom Stephenson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tstephenson1
Dear Legal Ops podcast: https://www.dearlegalops.com/