Truth is a tricky thing.
Three girls lived in a cottage once. They are both everywhere and nowhere in these versions of the Truth.

Starring:

• Lori Snyder as Dot
• Adrienne Hardison as Helena
• Matt Peelen as Rob
• Sara Stapleton as Herself/Karen
• Sara Kitcher as Ellen
• Jeff Powell as Mark
• Josh Hallmark as Himself
• Megan Chaney Walker as Josh Hallmark as Mark as Ellen as A girl who lived in a cottage once

Music by:

• Podington Bear
• Twin Sister
• Maria Taylor
• Roseanne Cash
• Chris Zabriskie

The results are in. Mark moves on. Crochet Pants looks back. A life is celebrated. A birthday is celebrated. Aloha Karen watches the sunrise.

Starring:

• Lori Snyder as Dot
• Adrienne Hardison as Helena
• Matt Peelen as Aloha Rob
• Sara Stapleton as Herself/Karen Crochet Pants/Aloha Karen
• Jeff Powell as Mark
• Ryan Connelly as Christopher
• Matt Valletta as Darren
• Chris Braaten as Reporter
• Josh Hallmark as Himself

Music by:

• Podington Bear
• Beach Party Hula Island
• Sara Stapleton
• Evgeny Grinko
• Radical Face

The results are in. Mark moves on. Crochet Pants looks back. A life is celebrated. A birthday is celebrated. Aloha Karen watches the sunrise.

Starring:

• Lori Snyder as Dot
• Adrienne Hardison as Helena
• Matt Peelen as Aloha Rob
• Sara Stapleton as Herself/Karen Crochet Pants/Aloha Karen
• Jeff Powell as Mark
• Ryan Connelly as Christopher
• Matt Valletta as Darren
• Chris Braaten as Reporter
• Josh Hallmark as Himself

Music by:

• Podington Bear
• Beach Party Hula Island
• Sara Stapleton
• Evgeny Grinko
• Radical Face

We touch base with David. Dot & Helena look at "pics." Patty tells a friend about her wedding. Josh finds something at the bottom of a rabbit hole.

Starring:

• Chris Braaten as Rod Downey
• Chris Green as David
• Lori Snyder as Dot
• Adrienne Hardison as Helena
• Holly Hall as Patricia
• Sara Beth Poole as Ellen
• Sara Stapleton as Herself/Karen
• Josh Hallmark as Himself

Music by:

• Podington Bear
• Mele
• Samuel Corwin
• The Do

Helena gets upset with the news. Ellen has her eye on a cat painting. Josh can't believe his eyes. Darren spills the beans. Thanksgiving is celebrated on opposite ends of the country.

Starring:

• Adrienne Hardison as Helena
• Josh Hallmark as Himself
• Sara Beth Poole as Ellen
• Sara Stapleton as Herself/Karen
• Matt Valletta as Darren
• Holly Hall as Patricia

Music by:

• Podington Bear
• Titus 12
• Gary & John
• Chris Zabriskie
• Samuel Corwin
• Lia Ices

Dot tells Helena about her daughter's wedding. Josh and Sara try to sort out several possible Karens. Email Karen returns. Crochet Pants enters the fold. And Ellen catches another mouse.

Starring:

• Lori Snyder as Dot
• Adrienne Hardison as Helena
• Sara Stapleton as Karen/Herself
• Josh Hallmark as Himself
• Denise Page as Rosie
• Sara Beth Poole as Ellen

Music by:

• Podington Bear
• Muddy Waters
• Aurelie

Helena fondly remembers Dot's daughter and her friend. The girls return from vacation. Ellen continues to struggle with geography. Josh reaches out to an old friend.

Starring:
• Sara Stapleton as Herself/Karen
• Chris Green as Email Man
• Adrienne Hardison as Helena
• Jeff Powell as Mark
• Sara Beth Kitcher as Ellen
• Matt Peelen as Rob
• Josh Hallmark as Himself

Music by:
• Podington Bear
• Herman & Ian
• YEYEY
• Part Time

There's something oddly familiar, but strangely foreign about this. But what does it all mean, Leslie? Leslie?

Starring:
• Chris Green as David
• Josh Hallmark as Himself
• Lori Anyder as Dot
• Deana Marie as Karen
• Cory Saceaux as Rob
• Steven Pappas as Mark
• Donna Hume as Ellen
• Sara Stapleton as Herself
• Holly Hall as Patricia

Music by:
• Podington Bear
• Grandma Pat
• Ivy

Helena reconnects with an old friend. Someone is having a really bad day. Ellen wants free firewood. Ants! Ellen leaves something behind. Josh finds something alarming. Where's Leslie?

Starring:
• Adrienne Hardison as Helena
• Cindy Hall as ???????
• Jeff Powell as Mark
• Sara Stapleton as Karen/Herself
• Sara Beth Poole as Ellen
• Alyse Braaten as Leslie
• Chris Green as David
• Josh Hallmark as Himself

Music by:
• Podington Bear
• Grandma Pat
• Julie Maxwell's Piano Music

Dot loses her dog. Mark gets scolded. Karen spies on her neighbors. Someone is up to something. Josh tries to reconcile timelines. Ellen catches a mouse.

Starring:
• Lori Snyder as Dot
• Nina Innsted as Bonnie
• Jeff Powell as Mark
• Sara Stapleton as Karen/Herself
• Sara Beth Poole as Ellen
• Alyse Braaten as Leslie
• Chris Green as David
• Josh Hallmark as Himself

Music by:
• Podington Bear
• Marti
• Broke For Free

Catch up on all things Studio BOTH/AND for the month of February (and beyond).

This month's news:
• New tours and events
• Unsafe Spaces update
• The Karen & Ellen Letters update
• True Crime Bullsh** update
• New projects
• Our Americana update
• Studio BOTH/AND Launch Party follow-up in The Berkshires this October
• What's happening on Patreon this month

Links:
• True Crime Podcast Festival, use promo code JOSH for 15% off
• Studio BOTH/AND Patreon

What (and when) is Ellen doing with all these mice?
What are Mark and Bonnie up to?
What did Josh and Sara find?
Who's baking ham from the internet?
The Big D????

Season 2 will take you out of California, across multiple timelines, to new voices and witnesses, and answer most of your old questions plus some new ones.

The answers start pouring in on February 6.

The season finale.

Season 2 begins on January 29.

The Karen & Ellen Letters are found correspondence
Narrated and produced by: Josh Hallmark
Starring: Sara Stapleton, Sara Kitcher, Jeff Powell, Matt Peelen, Chris Green, Vicki Russell, Megan Chaney-Walker, Eric Schmidt, Paul Csomo, and Zoe Marshall-Rashid

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand

Music by:

• Lee Rosevere
• Chris Zabriskie
• Roie Shpigler
• Galactic Realms
• Icarus
• Digital Battlefield
• Tide
• Droid Bishop
• Night Crawlers
• Retro Chillwave
• Everything
  Featured music: Maria Taylor
  
  
  Patreon producers: Adrienne Aiello, Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annette L, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Dana Keith, Dr. Jill Cooper, Drew Vipond, Hallie Reed, Jessica Alihodzic, Jillian Natale, John O’Leary, Kendall C, Kimberly K, Lauren F, Lynnlie Tuschoff, Manolis Boulukos, Meggan Capps-Seawel, Mike Sherman, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Sarah King, SC, Shannon Foster, Shelly Brewer, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan Taylor, Karli McNutt, Lana, Sara Cee, Lydia Fiedler
  
  

In 1989: Ellen has concerns, Karen & Rob are at their wit's end, and Mark mourns a loss.
In 2012: Things get meta.

The Karen & Ellen Letters are found correspondence
Narrated and produced by: Josh Hallmark
Starring: Sara Stapleton, Sara Kitcher, Jeff Powell, and Matt Peelen

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand

Music by:

• Lee Rosevere
• Nightcrawlers
• Fifteen
• Retro Chillwave
• Topaz White
• Everything
  Patreon producers: Adrienne Aiello, Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annette L, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Dana Keith, Dr. Jill Cooper, Drew Vipond, Hallie Reed, Jessica Alihodzic, Jillian Natale, John O’Leary, Kendall C, Kimberly K, Lauren F, Lynnlie Tuschoff, Manolis Boulukos, Meggan Capps-Seawel, Mike Sherman, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Sarah King, SC, Shannon Foster, Shelly Brewer, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan Taylor, Karli McNutt, Lana, Sara Cee, Lydia Fiedler
  
  

Unsafe Spaces is an investigative, serialized true crime podcast that explores the crimes that take place in the places we’re supposed to feel safest.

In Season One: Tampa’s Missing Men, I explore how two different missing persons cases, reported on the same day, opened a Pandora’s Box of unreported assaults, cold missing persons cases, ignored rapes, and unsolved murders within Florida’s gay community; and the two men who could be responsible for all of them. Not to mention cold cases of missing gay and murdered men in Georgia, Illinois, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and beyond.

Check out Unsafe Spaces: www.UnsafeSpacesPodcast.com

The train goes off the tracks.

The Karen & Ellen Letters are found correspondence.
Narrated and produced by: Josh Hallmark.
Starring: Sara Stapleton, Sara Kitcher, Jeff Powell, Matt Peelen, and Chris Braaten

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand

Music by:

• Idokay
• Lee Rosevere
• Everything
• Digital Battleground
• Galactic Realms
• Roi Shpigler

Featured music: Maria Taylor

Patreon producers: Adrienne Aiello, Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annette L, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Dana Keith, Dr. Jill Cooper, Drew Vipond, Hallie Reed, Jessica Alihodzic, Jillian Natale, John O’Leary, Kendall C, Kimberly K, Lauren F, Lynnlie Tuschoff, Manolis Boulukos, Meggan Capps-Seawel, Mike Sherman, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Sarah King, SC, Shannon Foster, Shelly Brewer, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan Taylor, Karli McNutt, Lana, Sara Cee, Lydia Fiedler

In 2012, the Josh struggles with the joy vs. the reality of the letters.
In 1988, Karen honeymoons, Ellen prepares to move out, and Mark sends the girls what's left of their deposit.
In 2017, people have questions about Ellen.

The Karen & Ellen Letters are found correspondence.
Narrated and produced by: Josh Hallmark.
Starring: Sara Stapleton, Sara Kitcher, Jeff Powell, and Chris Braaten

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: www.truecrimebullshit.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Music by:

• Lee Rosevere
• Topaz White
• Fifteen
• Tide
• Junk City Rejects
• Icarus
• The APX
• Roi Shpigler
  Featured music: The Bird & The Bee
  
  
  Patreon producers: Adrienne Aiello, Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annette L, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Dana Keith, Dr. Jill Cooper, Drew Vipond, Hallie Reed, Jessica Alihodzic, Jillian Natale, John O’Leary, Kendall C, Kimberly K, Lauren F, Lynnlie Tuschoff, Manolis Boulukos, Meggan Capps-Seawel, Mike Sherman, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Sarah King, SC, Shannon Foster, Shelly Brewer, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan Taylor, Karli McNutt, Lana, Sara Cee, Lydia Fiedler
  
  

WARNING: This contains general spoilers about the scope of the Karen & Ellen Letters story. We talk around how the investigation ends, without giving away exact or detailed information.

Stephanie Sabin is a writer for WYDaily.com. More than that, she's a dear friend. And The Karen & Ellen Letters played a very significant role in both Stephanie's career and our friendship. Stephanie was a superfan of the podcast in its initial run; and now we're discussing it in depth, for the first time, since that initial investigation ended. We look at how the listening experience has changed, how society and culture have changed, and how these letters and their reality have changed us.

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: www.truecrimebullshit.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

In 2006, Josh begins to find evidence that three of the letter-writers actually exist.
In 1988, the girls celebrate a milestone, Karen and Mark find themselves at an impasse, and Mark finds joy in an unlikely place.

The Karen & Ellen Letters are found correspondence.
Narrated and produced by: Josh Hallmark.
Starring: Sara Stapleton, Sara Kitcher, Jeff Powell, and Benjamin Watkins.

This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: www.truecrimebullshit.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

Music by:

• Everything
• Topaz White
• Retro Chillwave
• Droid Bishop
• Channel 13
• Icarus
• Neon Lights
  Patreon producers: Adrienne Aiello, Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annette L, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Dana Keith, Dr. Jill Cooper, Drew Vipond, Hallie Reed, Jessica Alihodzic, Jillian Natale, John O’Leary, Kendall C, Kimberly K, Lauren F, Lynnlie Tuschoff, Manolis Boulukos, Meggan Capps-Seawel, Mike Sherman, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Sarah King, SC, Shannon Foster, Shelly Brewer, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan Taylor, Karli McNutt, Lana, Sara Cee, Lydia Fiedler
  
  

WARNING: This contains mild general spoilers about the scope of the Karen & Ellen Letters story. We talk around how the investigation ends, without giving away exact or detailed information.


Charlie Worroll (Crimelines; Crimelines and Consequences) has history with The Karen & Ellen Letters going back to its days as a blog (c. 2012). Years later, we met through podcasting. In the inaugural Karen & Ellen Conversations, we discuss how the letters have changed and how we have changed over time, propriety in storytelling, ethics in found and historical documents, social blunders, being stupid teenagers, and how Karen & Ellen is so much more than just letters.


Tidbits: Charlie embarrasses herself in a train car in Seattle. Why Josh stopped using video for the original After Shows.


This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: www.truecrimebullshit.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand