“At its inception, in the courts, and as a project, integration was deeply contested and Black people were deeply divided about it. ” – Dr. Noliwe Rooks The common narrative about integration often frames it as a clear victory—a moment when American education finally confronted injustice. But Dr. Noliwe Rooks argues the reality is far more complicated. In her new book, Integrated: How American Schools Failed Black Children, she traces the history of Black education, showing how the pursuit of desegregation sometimes led to profound losses for Black communities. In this conversation, Dr. Rooks discusses the overlooked sacrifices Black communities made as schools integrated, from the closure of vibrant Black-led schools to the erasure of Black educators’ roles and perspectives. Through the story of 4 generations of her own family, she reveals how integration initiatives frequently dismissed Black voices and visions for education, leaving systemic inequities intact. This episode challenges us to rethink what integration truly means, and what’s required if education is to fulfill its promise of justice and liberation for all students. ________________ Finding a school where your children can thrive, while avoiding contributing to the ongoing segregation we see today, can feel like a tough issue for socially conscious parents. Check out our FREE guide on how you can start engaging with the education system to achieve just that: Download the guide now - https://mailchi.mp/integratedschools/start-guide ________________ LINKS: Integrated: How American Schools Failed Black Children - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9780553387391 A Passionate Mind in Relentless Pursuit: The Vision of Mary McLeod Bethune - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9780593492420 Cutting School: The Segrenomics of American Education - https://bookshop.org/a/18658/9781620975985 S6E9 – BvB@67 – Noliwe Rooks Revisited – Dr. Rooks from our Brown v Board anniversary series - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s6e9-bvb67-noliwe-rooks-revisited/ S11E9: The Containment: Michelle Adams on Northern Jim Crow - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s11e9-the-containment-michelle-adams-on-northern-jim-crow/ No Choice Is the “Right” Choice: Black Parents’ Educational Decision-Making in Their Search for a “Good” School – Dr. Linn Posey-Maddox - https://meridian.allenpress.com/her/article-abstract/91/1/38/464262/No-Choice-Is-the-Right-Choice-Black-Parents?redirectedFrom=fulltext S10E14 – Jim Crow’s Pink Slip with Dr. Leslie Fenwick - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/s10e14-jim-crows-pink-slip-with-dr-leslie-fenwick/ Ep 11 – White Women and the Politics of White Supremacy - https://integratedschools.org/podcast/mcrae/ Use these links or start at our Bookshop.org storefront to support local bookstores, and send a portion of the proceeds back to us. - https://bookshop.org/shop/IntegratedSchools Join our Patreon to support this work, and connect with us and other listeners to discuss these issues even further. - https://www.patreon.com/integratedschools Let us know what you think of this episode, suggest future topics, or share your story with us – IntegratedSchools on Facebook, or email us podcast@integratedschools.org. The Integrated Schools Podcast was created by Courtney Mykytyn and Andrew Lefkowits. This episode was produced by Andrew Lefkowits and Val Brown. It was edited, and mixed by Andrew Lefkowits. Music by Kevin Casey. Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands