When you peel back the layers of most “successful” agencies, you find mediocrity hiding behind luck and inertia. Not here. In this episode, Michael Jans sits down with longtime Mastermind member Frank Karkowsky to reveal the real drivers of a Rule of 50 agency—where growth, margins, and valuation stack up in the top tier of the industry. Here’s what you’ll discover: The deliberate decision to move up-market—and why Pasadena Insurance rejected the “small account ceiling.” How adding benefits and high-value personal lines created handcuffs that lock in retention. The “agency-within-an-agency” approach that turns every department into a self-sustaining growth engine. Why investing in culture, producer systems, and client experience isn’t fluff—it’s strategy that drives EBITDA and valuation. Whether you're chasing growth, improving EBITDA, or engineering a higher valuation, this episode is packed with strategies you can apply today. 🎧 Listen now on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.