In this episode of The Huddle Leadership Podcast, host Kate Russell welcomes our first international guest, Paul Ter Wal, joining us from the Netherlands. With nearly 45 years of experience spanning law, social security, and leadership development, Paul brings a refreshing European perspective on authentic leadership and employee engagement. As a self-employed consultant for over 30 years, specialising in sustainable employability and the founder of innovative "campfire meetings," Paul challenges traditional top-down management structures with his horizontal leadership philosophy.
The conversation explores Paul's unique journey from lawyer to leadership revolutionary, examining how his legal background shaped his understanding of creating frameworks that enable people to flourish rather than constraining them. From working with individuals navigating social security to advising major corporations on core values alignment, Paul demonstrates how authentic leadership starts with self-knowledge and extends through trust-based relationships.
Key Takeaways
Authentic leadership begins with self-awareness: You can only lead people effectively when you truly know who you are—your core values, non-negotiables, and what drives your energy and passion
Energy management trumps time management: Employee engagement should result in people leaving work with more energy than they arrived with, creating a surplus for their personal lives and relationships
The manager vs. leader distinction: Managers make you feel they are important; leaders make you feel that you are important—this fundamental difference transforms workplace dynamics
Trust enables performance: Creating psychological safety where mistakes become learning opportunities allows people to use their talents fully and take calculated risks
Horizontal leadership is the future: The traditional vertical hierarchy is giving way to support-based leadership, where leaders stand behind professionals, providing resources and removing obstacles
Core values require deep work: Authentic organisational values can't be created in weekend retreats—they demand months of reflection, discussion, and alignment between individual and corporate non-negotiables
Campfire meetings over boardroom presentations: Replacing formal presentations with storytelling circles where everyone shares experiences creates genuine connection and collaborative problem-solving
Rules should enable, not constrain: Like sports, organisations need clear boundaries and guidelines, but within those parameters, people should have freedom to play and innovate
Featured Discussion
Paul's transformation from traditional lawyer to leadership revolutionary began with his recognition that legal frameworks should serve human flourishing, not bureaucratic control. His decade working in social security taught him to see beyond rules to the human stories underneath, developing his philosophy that "we need rules to make the environment clear, but not to tell others how to play."
The conversation takes a particularly powerful turn when Paul describes the "Rhineland movement" sweeping across Europe—Switzerland, Germany, the Netherlands, and Belgium—where organisations are literally turning the hierarchy horizontal. Instead of CEOs at the top directing downward, leaders position themselves at the back, supporting frontline professionals who directly serve customers. This isn't theoretical; Paul shares concrete examples of how this approach transforms both employee experience and customer satisfaction.
Kate and Paul explore the profound implications of Paul's "battery analogy" for engagement, where employees should operate in the green zone—gaining energy from work rather than being drained by it. They examine how this connects to Paul's four core values: transparency leading to integrity, family as central focus, fun as fundamental, and loyalty as foundation.
Innovation Spotlight: The Campfire Meeting Revolution
One of the most compelling elements of this conversation is Paul's description of replacing traditional board meetings with "campfire meetings." This innovative approach involves:
Circular seating arrangements where hierarchy dissolves into equality of participation. No papers or laptops to encourage presence and authentic connection
Storytelling focuses on where team members share experiences and challenges rather than receiving top-down directives. Collective problem-solving where the group's wisdom addresses individual challenges. An energy-first approach where relationship building precedes number analysis. Leader as facilitator rather than presenter, asking "What is your story?" instead of delivering monologues
The success of this approach lies in its recognition that accountability flows from connection and energy, not from control and fear. When people feel heard and valued, they naturally take ownership of outcomes and contribute their best thinking.
Quotable Moments
"If I talk to managers, I have the feeling that they are important. If I talk to leaders, I get the feeling that I'm important."
"Engagement is I go to work with a lot of energy, and I go to work with even more energy because I need that surplus in my private life to deal with my friends, with my family, with my kids."
"You can only lead people if you know who you are."
"We are trained to be scared to make mistakes. And that starts as little kids... Let the coaches and the referee make the playing field, and you as parents shut up."
"Accountability starts with the flow of energy. And if I can meet with you on that level and we can have that open discussion, then we can use the last 15 minutes saying, and now looking back, this is what happened."
"We see the best expert becoming leaders, and then we lose the best expert, and we have the worst manager."
"I call it the triple A status. It's attention, attention, attention. And you can only give attention if you learn how to listen."
Connect with Paul Ter Wal
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/paulterwal/
Website: https://paulterwal.com/
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