Our phones promise connection but often choke out what matters most. Alan Briggs and Joey Odom dive into the “PID loop” of proximity, interaction, and dependence — and share practical ways to reclaim your time, creativity, and relationships from constant distraction. We all feel it. That little computer in our pocket is shaping our attention, our relationships, and even our leadership. But what if our phones aren’t just tools—they’re thorns? In this episode of the Stay Forth Leadership Podcast, Alan Briggs sits down with Joey Odom, co-founder of Reclaim Well, to have a candid conversation about what phones are doing to us and how leaders, families, and organizations can respond. Together they unpack: Why phones act like “thorns in our pockets” that choke out fruitfulness The PID loop: proximity → interaction → dependence How to break proximity and start resetting your relationship with your device The connection between phones, mental load, and Sabbath rest Practical daily practices to reduce dependence (from 5-minute breaks to putting your phone to bed at night) Why this isn’t just a church issue or leadership issue — it’s a human issue This episode isn’t anti-phone. It’s pro-presence. Joey and Alan share small, practical rhythms to help you regain focus, reclaim creativity, and reconnect with the people and purpose that matter most. Resources & Links Learn more about Reclaim Well and the ARO Box Book recommendation: The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt Alan’s book The Sabbatical Journey — your field guide for deep rest and reorientation Subscribe, rate, and review the Stay Forth Leadership Podcast on Spotify or Apple Podcasts