Dr. Jenelle Kim sits down with Dr. Joel “Gator,” a board-certified pediatrician known for his balanced, evidence-minded approach to parenting and integrative medicine. This episode takes on one of the most polarized topics today—vaccines—through the lens of data, risk-benefit thinking, and informed consent. They explore rising chronic conditions in children, what a “slow/alternate” schedule actually looks like, how policy shapes vaccine safety incentives, and the role of food, toxins, and lifestyle in kids’ long-term health. You’ll Learn How to approach vaccines through risk-benefit thinking rather than ideology What a “slow/alternate” schedule involves (timing, spacing, one-at-a-time) The difference between preventing severe disease vs. blocking transmission How liability and the 1986 Vaccine Injury Act shape safety incentives Why chronic pediatric conditions are climbing—and what parents can control How integrative pediatrics uses nutrition and environment alongside Western care Mindset shifts: curiosity, humility, and staying out of “certainty traps” Chapters 00:00 – Why this conversation matters for parents 01:18 – Meet Dr. Joel “Gator” 04:40 – Keeping the topic non-political 08:05 – Why vaccine conversations feel censored 12:20 – Informed choice vs. mandates 15:10 – Breaking down a slow/alternate schedule 19:25 – Intuition, sensitive kids & missing research 22:40 – Genetics, safety, and data we need 26:15 – 1986 Vaccine Injury Act explained 29:20 – School requirements & choice 33:10 – Chronic conditions: obesity, allergies, autism 38:05 – Better diagnosis vs. true rise 41:10 – Food quality, toxins & systemic change 45:05 – Integrative pediatrics in practice 47:10 – Debate, humility, and mindset 49:00 – Book + advocacy resources 50:35 – Closing thoughts for parents Links & Resources 🌿 JBK Wellness Labs 📘 Between a Shot and a Hard Place 🎓 Dr. Kim’s The 8 Keys of Living Meditation & Qigong Courses  📲 Dr. Joel Gator: @drjoelgator | theshotbook.com