In this episode of The Experience Edge, Jochem Van Der Veer sits down with Santos Subramanyam, Director of Enterprise Products, CX & UX at Macy’s, to explore how customer experience has evolved over time, and what timeless truths still matter. Drawing from Santos’s extensive background in retail, hospitality, automotive, SaaS, and more, they dig into the role of measurement beyond NPS/MPS, the importance of aligning teams around customer journeys, and how AI and data are enabling more real‐time, human‐centred decisions. The conversation is rich with examples, from redesigning checkout flows in store, to localized customer experience, to prototyping with empathy, that illustrate how to build experiences that scale and deliver business outcomes.

They also examine what it takes to shift organization culture: elevating customer journey thinking from execution teams all the way up to the C‑suite; storytelling and alignment; and the real work of bringing teams, data, and leadership together. Santos shares both his successes and the friction points, especially around aligning priorities, defining what metrics truly matter, and using small wins and service design to drive momentum.

Guest Bio

Santos Subramanyam is Director of Enterprise Products, CX & UX at Macy’s. He leads large, cross‑functional teams to build scalable design systems, align business and customer outcomes, and use data and AI to optimize customer and colleague experiences. Santos has a diverse industry background, including retail, SaaS, hospitality (notably Marriott), and automotive, and has driven major transformations: boosting metrics like MPS/MPS across tens of thousands of associates, cutting transaction times in stores, modernizing legacy systems with holistic designs, and partnering with business, product, engineering, and data teams for measurable impact. He’s also an advocate for culture, localization, and embedding journey thinking across organizations.

Takeaways

• Past truths remain valuable , Experiences in physical retail and in‑person interactions still matter; digital cannot fully replace physical touchpoints.
• Modernizing systems is more than UI , It involves hardware, ergonomics, flow, colleague tools, and the mental model of how people (both customers and employees) interact.
• Metrics beyond MPS/NPS , Focusing on speed, ease, transparency, transaction times etc., rather than relying solely on MPS as a steering lever.
• Use service blueprints and Kaizen for discovering inefficiencies (even small ones) in physical + digital touchpoints; small changes can scale into large operational improvements.
• Storytelling & visualization matter , Enacting journey pain points (via role‑play) or using narrative visuals makes executive alignment easier.
• Cultural alignment is hard but essential , Organizational culture, leadership mindset, individual KPIs can misalign; aligning around customer journey thinking is an ongoing effort.
• Influence through small wins , Prove with smaller initiatives to build trust and momentum before big change.
• Engage stakeholders where they are , Whether legal, product, tech, or operations, find ways to include them in the journey, storytelling, and showing shared value.

Chapters

00:00 Intro & Name Pronunciation

 03:11 Santos’s Background & What Still Holds True in CX

 06:30 The 80‑20 Rule & Localisation in Global CX

 12:30 Moving Beyond NPS/MPS: Business Metrics & Speed of Transaction

 18:30 Journey Mapping, Service Blueprints & Physical + Digital Integration

 23:00 Prioritization, Autonomy & Small Wins

 27:40 Organizing Teams Around Outcomes vs Functions

 30:50 Storytelling Up the Org & C‑Suite Engagement

 38:20 AI Use Cases: Call Center, Conversational Agents, Merchant Tools

 50:30 Using Reports, Data, Feedback Loops to Drive Action

 57:00 Magic Wand Question: What Would You Change Most?

 59:00 What’s Next for Journey Alignment & Final Thoughts

LinkedIn Profiles

Guest: Santos Subramanyam

Host: Jochem van der Veer