An uncomfortable truth in the energy transition is that Coal is still a major part of the global energy system.

Despite being majorly polluting and often no cheaper than cleaner alternatives, it's persisted particularly in countries like China, India, and Indonesia, but also the USA and Australia. Why? And how do we truly phase it out of the system.

Our guest this week is Lucy Shaw, who's working on a book looking at the role of coal in the world and why it's been so hard for some countries to give up.

We talk about the politics that's keeping coal on line from mechanised mines in China to aging sites in Trump's new America, complete with some real stories from Lucy's research on the ground.

The show is hosted by Sulaiman Ilyas-Jarrett, former senior government advisor at the UK Department for Energy Security and Net Zero and the No10 Policy Unit, and a Fellow at the University of Cambridge Centre for Science and Policy.