It's no secret that the pandemic changed everything that businesses knew about their customers overnight. But old habits – and big systems – are hard to break, especially in big corporations where innovation is expensive and "risk" is a swear word.

On this week's episode of The Dumbest Guy in the Room, host John Dick welcomes Shelley Bransten, Microsoft's corporate vice president for global retail and consumer goods. John and Shelley talk about how COVID became the new "chief innovation officer" in retail, how companies need to be agile and resilient in the face of constant change, and whether it's better to write a grocery list by hand or on a smartphone.