The U.S. economy is absolutely massive. It’s also extremely complex, and that makes it difficult from the political perspective. You can’t thoroughly explain globalization and supply chains in a meme. We need to make economics more approachable and more relatable for the average person, and stop talking about the US economy like it’s one big monolith.

In this episode of The Dumbest Guy in the Room, host John Dick welcomes Michelle Meyer, the chief North American economist for Mastercard and one of the most influential people on Wall Street, Madison Avenue, and CNBC. John and Michelle talk about the rising prominence of women in economics and finance, why Michelle isn’t alarmed about the recent economic chaos, the role of technology in improving productivity, and why you should rinse your dishes before putting them in the dishwasher.