Why do some people never feel “back to normal” after COVID—or after any major illness—despite normal labs? Dr. Sanjay sits down with naturopathic physician and complex-illness specialist Jenny Tufenkian, ND to explore long COVID and myalgic encephalomyelitis/“chronic fatigue syndrome” (ME/CFS): brain fog, fatigue, post-exertional malaise, mast cell activation, and the mental/emotional toll of being dismissed.
They discuss root causes (viral reactivation, immune exhaustion, mitochondrial dysfunction, gut involvement), useful biomarkers (blood–brain barrier and neuroinflammation panels, lymphocyte mapping, herpes-family titers), and Jenny’s Five Foundations (digestion, detox, movement/breath & circadian rhythm, mindset/spirit, and connection).
You’ll also hear practical starting points—sleep and gut first for many—and why joy, nature, laughter, and community are not “soft” add-ons but nervous-system medicine. Jenny previews her Long COVID 2.0 Summit featuring leading researchers and clinicians.
Guest
Jenny Tufenkian, ND — Naturopathic physician specializing for 20+ years in complex chronic illness, including long COVID and ME/CFS. She leads patient programs focused on root-cause healing and nervous-system regulation and hosts the Long COVID 2.0 Summit.
Key topics & takeaways
- Why complex patients get “spit out” by the system: algorithmic care misses multi-system illness; dismissal often defaults to “it’s depression/anxiety.”
- ME/CFS clarified: better termed myalgic encephalomyelitis—neuro-immune inflammation affecting brain and muscle; symptoms wax and wane.
- Post-Exertional Malaise (PEM): delayed crash (sometimes 72+ hours later); recognize patterns and “energy budgeting.”
- Vagus nerve & autonomic dysregulation: buzzing/vibration sensations, high sympathetic tone; mindset and breathwork matter.
- Viral reactivation: EBV/CMV/HHV-6 can hijack mitochondria and evade immunity; consider immune status (over/under-reactive).
- Useful labs (examples mentioned):
- Neuroinflammation/BBB markers & Alzheimer’s-link panels (e.g., Cyrex).
- Immune/lymphocyte mapping and long-COVID panels (e.g., Immunosciences).
- Herpes-family titers; consider tau/other neurodegeneration biomarkers.
- Five Foundations:
- Digestion/Gut (COVID’s GI residency is common)
- Detoxification
- Movement & Breath / Circadian Rhythm & Sleep
- Mindset & Spirit
- Connection (to self, others, community; joy & laughter as therapy)
- Start where it moves the needle: sleep or gut for many; or choose the easiest win to build momentum.
- Joy is medicine: positive affect, nature, art, and play help downshift the nervous system, benefiting immunity and aging biology.
Notable quotes (pull-quotes)
- “If you don’t fit neatly into a bucket, the system spits you out.”
- “Post-exertional malaise can be delayed—sometimes days later.”
- “Joy and connection aren’t extras; they’re nervous-system medicine.”
- “Be a detective: the path back is unique to each body.”
Chapter markers (approx.)
- 00:00 Intro & why “complex” patients get lost
- 05:10 ME/CFS explained; gaslighting & the psych default
- 10:18 Brain & muscle inflammation; why root causes differ
- 16:06 Common symptoms, PEM, infections vs. vaccine patterns
- 17:30 Autonomic dysregulation, vagus sensations, stress loops
- 19:59 Delayed crashes & the trap of real-time correlations
- 22:10 Energy budgeting & the hidden life of patients
- 25:05 Joy, laughter, and neuro-immune health
- 27:58 The “gateway” HPA axis; stress addiction & culture
- 30:47 Mindset/spirit, nature, and connection as therapy
- 37:20 Biomarkers: BBB, neuroinflammation, viral panels, immune mapping
- 43:17 Treatment philosophy & Five Foundations
- 46:39 Long COVID 2.0 Summit preview
- 49:29 Rapid-fire: favorite places, food, curiosity
Resources & links (add your URLs)
- Jenny’s Long COVID 2.0 Summit – https://drjennytufenkian.com/summit-2-0-registration/ref/28/
