In this episode , we are joined by John Dunne, a leading thinker at the intersection of Buddhist philosophy and contemporary science. We explore topics ranging from the nuances of "Buddhist science" and its critiques to the challenges of integrating mindfulness into scientific research, and the new relationship emerging between psychedelics and contemplative practice. We examine the role of phenomenology in contemplative science, the complexities of gathering first-person data, and the media's portrayal of mindfulness, including the potential harms that are often sensationalized. This insightful conversation is essential listening for anyone interested in the evolving relationship between contemplation, mindfulness, and rigorous scientific inquiry.