The episode explores how marketers can shift their mindset from focusing on content containers to prioritizing storytelling and strategic content creation. Lee Judge and Robert Rose discuss the evolving role of content marketing in the age of AI, the pitfalls of over-measuring, and the importance of valuable friction in marketing processes.
Timecodes
00:00 - Get Out of "Container First" Mentality: Start with Story
01:00 - Introducing Robert Rose & the Value of Thought Leadership
03:08 - Measurement Myths: Marketers Should Measure Less, Do More
05:34 - Risk vs. Numbers: Incremental vs. Bold Marketing Moves
09:03 - The Cracker Barrel Logo Fiasco & The Value of Attention
11:27 - Attention vs. Long-Term Brand Value in Marketing
15:35 - CMOs & the Attribution Challenge: Budget, Brand, & Measurement
19:12 - Corporate Measurement Culture: Agreement vs. Accuracy
24:05 - AI’s Impact: Human Content Marketing Renaissance?
27:56 - Why Content Marketing Research Still Focuses on Text
32:26 - Repurposing Content: Story-First Approach Over Containers
34:50 - Valuable Friction: Slowing Down for Better Content Creation
40:23 - Where to Find Robert’s Book & Closing Remarks
Main Takeaways
Start with the story, not the container—content should drive the format, not the other way around.
Measurement is often flawed and overemphasized; agreement on what success looks like is more important than accuracy.
AI can enhance creativity but should be used to deepen, not replace, human insight and storytelling.
Subscribe, share the episode, and visit valuablefriction.com to learn more about Robert Rose's new book.
A. Lee Judge is the creator and host of The Business of Marketing podcast.
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This podcast is produced by Content Monsta - A leading producer of B2B Content.