When Sarah Dunant was writing her most recent historical novel, she had a character who was tough to crack. Isabella D’Este, a 16th century Italian noblewoman, had no obvious softness or humanity, and then Sarah – a bestselling novelist and cultural commentator – discovered her fondness for little dogs.

Erica talks to Sarah about the ways in which understanding relationships that people had with dogs historically gives an incredibly rich window into the past. From horse culture to pig rearing, the history of humankind is almost all there.

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