In this conversation Jenna and Nicole talk about the importance of creating inclusive learning environments that cater to diverse learners' needs, balancing advocacy and agency. They discuss the updated Universal Design for Learning (UDL) guidelines 3,0, prioritising equity, inclusivity, and student-centered learning. Jenna and Nicole then talk about the need for progress over perfection and creating spaces for learners to navigate their learning, pursue meaningful goals, and reflect on feedback. They also emphasise the importance of representing diverse perspectives and prioritising collaboration, interdependence, and emotional growth in a student-centered and teacher-centered approach.