Dobson and MacArthur shaped a movement. Now it's time to ask: at what cost? ✨ Episode Summary In this powerful roundtable conversation, host Corey Nathan is joined by author and public theologian Lisa Sharon Harper and pastor Joe Smith to explore the complex legacies of James Dobson and John MacArthur—two towering figures in American Evangelicalism who recently passed away. What starts as a reflective discussion on personal experiences with Dobson’s and MacArthur’s teachings evolves into a profound analysis of spiritual formation, systemic violence, and the urgent need for a new way forward in faith communities. Together, the guests courageously confront the intersections of race, gender, theology, and power—and what it means to heal, both personally and as a collective. ⏱️ Timestamps Time Topic 00:00 Introduction to the episode & guests 01:00 Lisa Sharon Harper on her spiritual beginnings 03:00 Legacy and impact of James Dobson 08:00 Dobson’s theology of discipline and its cultural roots 14:00 The trauma of “biblical” corporal punishment 20:00 Confessions of former Dobson followers — personal growth and regret 25:00 John MacArthur's institutional power and theological rigidity 30:00 Colonialism and the colonization of scripture 36:00 Reading scripture through empire vs. liberation 44:00 Who benefits from dominant theological frameworks? 48:00 Embracing humility and paradigm shifts in theology 54:00 Stories of change: how family and love reshape theology 1:02:00 Creating soft landing spaces for theological transformation 1:08:00 Substack, Freedom Road, and Lisa’s ongoing work 1:10:00 Final reflections on urgent action, humility, and grace 🧠 Key Takeaways Dobson’s influence wasn’t just theological—it had lasting psychological, cultural, and political ramifications, particularly around corporal punishment. John MacArthur's legacy is marked by strict dogmatism and theological frameworks that protect power structures. Colonial frameworks of reading the Bible have displaced the voices of those who were closest to the original context of scripture. Transformation is possible, but it requires humility, relationships, and spaces where people can ask hard questions without fear. Urgency matters — personal and institutional change cannot come at the cost of marginalized communities' well-being. 🔥 Notable Quotes 🗣️ "Dobson taught us to break children like we break horses. But what does that say about our own brokenness?" — Lisa Sharon Harper 🗣️ "Scripture can't only be understood one way across all time and cultures—that's not reverence, that's colonialism." — Joe Smith 🗣️ "People's freedom can't wait for our paradigm shift." — Lisa Sharon Harper 📚 Resources & Mentions Fortune: How Race Broke My Family and the World, and How to Repair It All by Lisa Sharon Harper - lisasharonharper.com/fortune If God Still Breathes, Why Can’t I? by Dr. Angela Parker - www.eerdmans.com/9780802879264/if-god-still-breathes-why-cant-i Lisa's Substack post on the passing of James Dobson - substack.com/home/post/p-171912453 🙌 Connect with the Guests Lisa Sharon HarperSubstack - lisasharonharper.substack.comInstagram - www.instagram.com/lisasharper Joe SmithMeizon Church GNV - www.meizonchurch.comInstagram - www.instagram.com/therealjoe.smith 📣 Calls to Action: ✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation. ✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform. ✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics ✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com ✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion 🔗 Connect on Social Media: Corey is @coreysnathan on... Bluesky LinkedIn Instagram Threads Facebook Substack TikTok Our Sponsors: Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com The V