Can music provide hope when freedom has been taken away? Ethel Smyth’s March of the Women rang out as a rallying cry for imprisoned suffragettes, its rhythms defiant and unifying. Olivier Messiaen’s Quartet for the End of Time, composed and first performed in a Nazi POW camp in 1941, fused faith, birdsong, and dazzling visions of colour into music that offered hope and transcendence to prisoners and guards alike.
Gillian Moore and Linton Stephens explore how these works — and many others — testify to the resilience of creativity. Gillian also recalls her own encounters with music behind bars, where moments of song broke down walls both physical and emotional.
Episode highlights
00:00 Welcome to So Hear Me Out
02:03 Exploring music's role in prisons
03:42 Personal experiences with music in prisons
08:33 Introducing Ethel Smyth's March of the Women
11:33 The impact and legacy of March of the Women
21:12 More notable music behind bars
22:38 The iconic title and its significance
23:14 Introduction to Olivier Messiaen
24:24 The Quartet for the End of Time: background and composition
24:57 A unique orchestration and instrumentation
27:55 Messiaen's religious and natural inspirations
29:14 The First Movement: Abyss of the Birds
32:27 Synesthesia and Messiaen's colorful music
39:27 The first performance in the prison camp
40:56 The emotional heart of The Quartet…
44:46 Music as emancipation and resistance
46:23 Closing thoughts and farewell
Featured music:
Quartet for the End of Time (1941) Olivier Messiaen
March of the Women (1910) Ethel Smyth
Expect a whirlwind tour through Luciano Berio’s mashup masterpiece Sinfonia, complete with Mahler, Beckett, and a generous helping of 1960s political angst.
Then it’s off to a galaxy far, far away to explore how Star Wars composer John Williams borrowed from the greats to create some of the most iconic music in film history (spoiler: Holst and Wagner would probably want royalties).
In this episode of So Hear Me Out, your ever-curious hosts Gillian Moore and Linton Stephens dig into how classical music has been sampling, stealing from (sorry, paying homage to), and reinventing itself for centuries.
This episode asks, is anything truly original? Do composers all have a secret sampling habit? And can reworking the past speak to the world today?
In this episode:
08:51 Luciano Berio’s Sinfonia Movement No. 3
13:43 Analyzing Berio's Sinfonia
23:01 Intertextuality in music: Beckett, Mahler, and 1968
23:51 The radical politics of the 1960s in classical music
24:28 Breaking the fourth wall in music
25:28 A memorable performance at the Southbank Centre
26:25 John Williams and the Influence of classical music
29:22 The genius of John Williams: Star Wars and beyond
31:46 Iconic melodies and orchestration techniques
33:53 The familiar sound world of Star Wars
37:19 The influence of classical composers on John Williams
42:04 The brilliance of John Williams' scores
47:29 Remixing and reworking classical music
50:18 Closing thoughts and farewell
Chapters:
00:04 - Introduction
05:35 - Historical context of remixing in classical music
13:48 - Berio's influences: The Beatles, Beckett, Mahler, and 1968
23:19 - Berio’s Resurrection Symphony
26:31 - The Influence of Classical Music on Modern Composers
32:25 - The legacy of John Williams' film music
39:54 - Exploring the classical homages in Star Wars
46:18 - The Impact of John Williams' Music
50:18 - Closing thoughts and farewell
Featured music:
Sinfonia Movement No. 3 (1969) Luciano Berio
Star Wars (1977) John Williams
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Linton and Gillian explore how classical music has been used to challenge power, uplift marginalised voices, and fuel social movements. From radical sounds to revolutionary ideas, we discover how music becomes activism.
Linton introduces Julius Eastman’s Gay Guerrilla, a defiant and deeply moving work that reclaims the idea of the ‘guerrilla’ as a symbol of queer resistance. The piece is raw, repetitive, and electrifying – built to reflect both personal struggle and collective power.
Gillian guides us through Frederic Rzewski’s The People United Will Never Be Defeated, a towering set of 36 variations based on a Chilean protest anthem. Together Gillian and Linton unpack how Rzewski weaves political messages into classical form, creating a composition that bridges generations and geographies of resistance.
Throughout this episode, the hosts consider how music amplifies stories too often silenced, and how these works continue to speak to today’s social and political realities. This is classical music as you’ve never heard it – urgent, unflinching, and unafraid to raise its voice.
Listen now for an exploration of music that dares to speak out and still echoes today.
Episode highlights:
00:00 Welcome to So Hear Me Out
01:02 Today's big question: How is classical music protest music?
02:33 Anne Hathaway and Les Misérables
03:16 Exploring protest and resistance in classical music
04:31 Julius Eastman's Gay Guerrilla
06:23 Analyzing the music and techniques of Gay Guerrilla
25:01 Frederic Rzewski's The People United Will Never Be Defeated
29:25 Musical variations and political messages
41:08 The power of music in activism
42:06 Closing thoughts and farewell
Featured works
Get in touch
Credits
Produced by Connor Gani
Executive Producers Emily Dicks and Phil Smith
Sound Mix by Solomon King
A Reduced Listening production for Southbank Centre
Music doesn’t exist in a vacuum – it travels, it transforms, and sometimes it takes what isn’t freely given.
Hosts Linton Stephens and Gillian Moore wade into one of the most complex questions in music today: is it okay to use sounds from cultures that are not your own? And, perhaps more importantly, how can you tell the difference between inspiration and appropriation?
Together they dig into Claude Debussy’s Pagodas, written after his encounter with Javanese gamelan music at the 1889 Paris Exhibition, asking whether his East meets West composition is an act of respectful homage or something more problematic. They also explore Antonín Dvořák’s Symphony No.9 (The New World Symphony), shaped by his time in the US and the influence of African American spirituals and Native American music – with key input from his student, Harry T. Burleigh.
This episode of So Hear Me Out is about the grey areas; where admiration meets appropriation, and where intention matters just as much as impact. With a blend of musical excerpts, historical insight, and honest reflection, Gillian and Linton offer a nuanced take on how cultural exchange has shaped classical music – and how to approach it more thoughtfully today.
Listen now for a rich and challenging conversation that proves music can both connect and complicate across cultures.
In this episode:
00:00 Welcome to So Hear Me Out
00:55 Today's big question: cultural appropriation in music
03:13 Exploring cultural heritage in classical music
11:44 Debussy's tribute to Javanese gamelan
24:01 Dvořák's New World Symphony: honoring American sounds
40:29 Reflecting on cultural inspiration versus appropriation
42:17 Closing thoughts and farewell
Featured works
Pagodes (1903) Claude Debussy
Symphony No 9 (1893) Antonín Dvořák
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Get in touch
📩 Send your classical questions to podcasts@southbankcentre.co.uk
Get updates on Instagram @southbankcentre
Follow us on TikTok @southbank.centre
Subscribe to The Tonic newsletter for all of our articles, video and audio
And don’t forget to subscribe and comment, wherever you get your podcasts
Kicking off with the worst classical music jokes we could find, Linton and Gillian dive into the hidden humour of the classical world — from Haydn’s cheeky Surprise Symphony to Ravel’s mischievous opera L’enfant et les sortilèges.
Q: Why did the pianist keep banging her head against the keys?
A: Because she was playing by ear.
(We’re sorry. It only gets slightly better from here.)
Expect orchestral pranks, singing teacups, and musical punchlines you didn’t see coming. But it's not all laughs — our hosts also unpack how humour intersects with performance, culture, and the sometimes tricky territory of what was funny then vs. now.
Key takeaways:
Episode highlights:
00:00 Introduction
03:17 The worst classical music jokes
07:26 Exploring humour in classical music
09:39 The origins of Colette's libretto and Ravel's adaptation
30:17 The Genius of Haydn: humour in classical music
37:41 Closing thoughts and farewell
Featured works
👉 Subscribe now to So Hear Me Out and don’t miss an episode.
Get in touchCan classical music be protest? Can it make you laugh? Or is it just one big remix?
In So Hear Me Out, hosts Gillian Moore and Linton Stephens dig into the big questions, uncovering unexpected stories, surprising connections, and the hidden humour behind the music you thought you knew.
This is classical music without the clichés — and with plenty to say about the world today.
👉 Subscribe now to So Hear Me Out and don’t miss an episode.
Get in touch:
So Hear Me Out is a brand new podcast from London’s Southbank Centre, exploring the big questions around classical music — and why it still matters today.
Join hosts Linton Stephens (musician, broadcaster and Deputy Artistic Director of Chineke! Orchestra) and Gillian Moore (writer, broadcaster and Artistic Associate at Southbank Centre) as they challenge assumptions, unpick controversies, and share fresh ways of listening to the music you thought you knew.
Each episode starts with a question — from “can classical music be laugh-out-loud funny?” to “is it okay to borrow styles from other cultures?” — and opens the door to two hand-picked pieces of music. Some you’ll recognise instantly, others might be brand new to you, but all will spark new perspectives.
Expect surprising connections, plenty of feeling (not just theory), the occasional detour to Gillian’s piano, and a warm invitation into the classical world — no PhD required.
In this trailer, you’ll get a taste of what’s to come, including John Williams’ Star Wars score and Luciano Berio’s revolutionary Symphonia.
So whether you’re a Mahler obsessive or you just stumbled in looking for lo-fi beats — welcome. You’re in the right place.
👉 Subscribe now to So Hear Me Out and don’t miss an episode.
Get in touch: