'When it comes to ethical marketing, our measures of success aren't just the amount of money that's coming through the door. Because if your measure of success is just about how much money you're making then it doesn't matter how you make that money. It doesn't matter if you're telling people the thing you're selling is going to give them 'X' when in fact it doesn't do that at all. You can sell all the promises and never deliver and for a while, that business model might work for you but most of the people I work with and certainly for myself in business, our measures of success are far more nuanced than that.' In today's episode Kaity is joined by Anna Rogan, an ethical copywriter. There's a better way to do marketing. One that doesn't rely on old-school sleazy sales tactics. Or at least Anna Rogan - a stubbornly creative copywriter, determined olive farmer and truly hopeless optimist - believes so. Anna has a BA in psychology, a post-grad in writing and a decade-long career in comms and media roles for some pretty big brands under her belt. But these days she mainly writes for purpose-driven, heart-led small businesses and entrepreneurs. Let's jump in! WHAT YOU'LL LEARN ABOUT IN THIS EPISODE: •Ways to achieve ethical, effective copy •Behind the scenes of a copywriting business - how charging for time not major projects creates flexibility in Anna's weekly schedule •Clients perspective on why hourly / per day rate is better than a time based model •Choosing the best business model for your service based business and your lifestyle •How to deal with clients that have overstepped boundaries and asked for more than originally agreed upon RESOURCES: •Anna Rogan Website •Anna Rogan on Instagram •Kaity on Instagram •Kaity Griffin website