When Microsoft announced a "Windows Package Manager" (better known as Winget) in the context of the Build conference in 2020, hardly anyone suspected that this overdue, long-desired tool was not a "Microsoft original". A Canadian programmer, my today's guest Keivan Beigi, had developed a package manager called "AppGet" a few years earlier and made it available under an open source license. When Microsoft employees contacted him one fine day, what belonged together seemed to come together. But then the story took its own course. We talk about the background of his technology, package management in general and Microsofts fickle strategy towards its own community.