While Jamie is away on his quest to join the proletariat in order to secure a liveable wage, Skander is joined by Andrew, a fellow student from the Centre for Development and Environment at the University of Oslo.   Together, with the help of arcane zoomic rituals, they conjure the spirit of Paul Robbins, Dean of the Nelson Institute for Environmental Studies at the University of Wisconsin-Madison to ask him a few questions about the sacred political ecology textbook he once wrote... and re-wrote... and re-re-wrote. You know the saying, 3rd edition's the charm. Paul is a fantastic researcher and theorist who has published a plethora of fascinating research and work around questions such as: why it is that working on topics related to nature is inherently political? We discuss his work and efforts at the Nelson Institute, the academic wars of the 90s and what we can learn from the degrowth/ecomodernism divide. We left this conversation even bigger fans of Paul's work, having learned much about a field which we consider to be our (upcoming) own, and running to ask our local bookshops if they have copies of his book Lawn People.    You can find Paul on Twitter and more of his work on his website  Let us know your thoughts at risingwiththetide@gmail.com as well as what you'd like us to talk about next!  Links to all streaming platforms and socials: linktr.ee/risingwiththetide  Or head to our website! www.risingwiththetide.org  Songs for the Episode is "Muzzle of Bees" (Intro) by Wilco & "Waiting for the Great Leap Forward" by Billy Bragg