Episode Show Notes

Summary

In this episode, Dr. Chris Brown sits down with customer experience pioneer Annette Franz, author of Customer Understanding, Built to Win, and her latest book, Employee Understanding. Annette shares her journey from JD Power to becoming one of the leading voices on connecting employee experience, customer experience, and business outcomes. Together they explore the blind spots leaders have around culture, the three-pillar framework for employee understanding, and why listening—not surveys alone—is the foundation of sustainable success.

From the “Sunday Scaries Test” to the dangers of gaming metrics like NPS, this conversation is packed with practical insights for leaders who want to design people-centric cultures that drive performance.

Key Takeaways

• Employee experience is business critical: Without empowered employees, customer experience and business outcomes suffer.
• Culture is the shadow of the leader: Leaders shape or allow the culture—there is no middle ground.
• Three-pillar framework: Culture alignment, employee insights, and leadership empathy are the keys to designing great workplaces.
• Beware of “lipstick on a pig” fixes: Solve root causes, not symptoms, through service blueprinting and systemic problem-solving.
• Metrics can mislead: Chasing scores like NPS often backfires; focus on genuine experience improvements.
• Listen beyond surveys: Stay interviews, roundtables, and employee advisory boards are underused but powerful tools.
• Modernize or fossilize: Leaders must evolve their practices—or risk irrelevance.

Memorable Sound Bites

• “You get the culture you design—or the one you allow.”
• “Culture is truly the shadow of the leader.”
• “Stop asking in exit interviews why people left. Ask in stay interviews why they’re still here.”
• “When leaders beg for scores, you’re moving the metric—not the experience.”
• “If employees feel unsafe to speak up, all you’ll hear is crickets.”
• “Modernize or fossilize—that’s the choice facing today’s CEOs.”

Chapters

1. 00:00 – Introduction: Annette’s early career at JD Power and the origins of her CX journey.
2. 03:00 – Employee Blind Spots: Why leaders still struggle to connect employee experience with business performance.
3. 05:40 – The Sunday Scaries Test: How workplace culture impacts employees before Monday even begins.
4. 07:15 – Culture & Leadership: Why culture rests squarely on the shoulders of leaders.
5. 11:40 – The Three Pillars: Culture alignment, employee insights, and empathy in action.
6. 16:20 – Personas & Empathy: Bringing customers and employees to life inside organizations.
7. 21:30 – Connecting to Business Outcomes: Linking journey mapping and feedback to measurable ROI.
8. 27:20 – Goodhart’s Law & Metrics: How chasing numbers distorts reality.
9. 31:20 – Yes Madam Case Study: What not to do with employee feedback.
10. 35:20 – Lipstick on a Pig: Why surface fixes fail without root cause analysis.
11. 37:50 – Listening Beyond Surveys: Stay interviews, listening tours, and employee advisory boards.
12. 42:00 – Modernize or Fossilize: Annette’s open letter to CEOs.
13. 43:30 – AI & Human Connection: Where technology fits—and where it doesn’t.
14. 46:40 – Delta Airlines Example: A model of connecting culture, employees, and customers.
15. 48:30 – Closing Thoughts: Where to find Annette’s work and resources.