The RWO team sat down for a conversation with Ayşe Zarakol. Ayşe is a Professor of International Relations at the University of Cambridge and a Politics Fellow at Emmanuel College. Ayse is the author or editor of a range of pathbreaking award winning books, including After Defeat: How the East Learned to Live with the West (Cambridge, 2010) , the volume Hierarchy in World Politics (Cambridge, 2017), and more recently Before the West: The Rise and Fall of Eastern World Orders (Cambridge, 2022).

We thank the Princeton Broadcast Center and our audio engineer, Alex Brownstein, and our editor, Jake Bowne, for helping produce this episode.

For more information about RWO, please visit our website: ⁠rwo.princeton.edu⁠.

This interview was recorded on December 5, 2024.

The intro song is called 'Jazz Mood' from Soundstreet's free podcast introduction playlist.