In this episode of the Real World Talk podcast, Zoe Li talks to Paul Simms, a Managing Partner at Inpatient Health. For 17 years, Paul was running a company called IFA pharma. As he says, it was helpful because it put him in touch with everybody in the industry and allowed him to understand the trends and the beliefs. Paul and Zoe discuss why the pharma industry is science-centric and not patient-centric. Paul also says if we want to understand the problem, we need to experience it. The guest mentions problems he sees in leadership and healthcare. As he explains, leaders usually talk about present or past actions, and no one talks about the future. He also notices the lack of imagination and creativity within the industry and, as a solution, offers the model of four A's: ambition, attention, accountability, and action.