This week, the boys are talking about theory and practice, because, as the listener who submitted the question says, "fuck you, that's why." It's true, there's a lot of safety literature out there that's gotten more head-up-its-own-ass. Moralizing about safety is cool until it isn't, and the question is a good one (it was something like wanting to hear more about decision-making and doing things instead of recycling ideas as a career by itself). It can feel like things get way too academic and maybe even elite. That said, the boys argue that people don't need things "dumbed down" for them, either. The whole point of this little podcast is to be able to question things about safety. It seems like an awful lot of discussion, sometimes a little rowdy, is about whether something is "just theory" or if it's actually useful. Being useful is important, but asking who something is useful for is just as important. And being useful isn't something that just happens. It's based on theory, too. So there's the thing. Dave brings up playing bass with only 2 or 3 strings, which means that even though the guitar company thinks they're important, Dave doesn't. The boys talk about making sure front-line folks have tools that work - but people work in other places, too. That gets back to the "Who is it useful for?" questions. Solid quote from Dave on this one, by the way: "Theory isn't just pontification, like people sitting around on whiteboards just making shit up, proposing stuff." Theory is observing patterns that actually happen in the world, and then trying to come up with models about why those patterns play out, and in what situations it matters. Otherwise, how do we build tools and predict those patterns in a way that's connected directly to work. So principles aren't theory. They're underlying values and guides for understanding. Does theory matter? Do principles matter? Yup. But as important as they are, theories and principles aren't solutions by themselves. Maybe that's the disconnect: treating principles as solutions. If you're into the whole work-as-imagined thing, that's pretty close to describing theory. There's some disagreement between the boys about starting with the theory vs. starting with observations in the organization. Here's where you probably ought to listen in to see how the conversation pans out. Arguing about what punk rock is can sometimes just get in the way of the music. The whole answer is never in the book. It's probably not only at the point of work either. Like the description of this stupid podcast says, do shit that works.