Where's the money in podcasting? Hosted by Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, PodBiz dives into the strategies, trends, and tools driving podcast monetization and industry growth. From ad revenue and branded content to audience development and production workflows, we spotlight the real business behind the mic.
Each week, we speak with creators, executives, and innovators answering the one question on everyone’s mind: Where’s the money in podcasting?
Whether you're monetizing your show, launching a network, or just obsessed with the space, PodBiz is your insider guide to podcasting’s biggest opportunities.
Listen to new episodes every Monday- Let’s get down to PodBiz!
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Where's the money in podcasting? Hosted by Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, PodBiz dives into the strategies, trends, and tools driving podcast monetization and industry growth. From ad revenue and branded content to audience development and production workflows, we spotlight the real business behind the mic.
Each week, we speak with creators, executives, and innovators answering the one question on everyone’s mind: Where’s the money in podcasting?
Whether you're monetizing your show, launching a network, or just obsessed with the space, PodBiz is your insider guide to podcasting’s biggest opportunities.
Listen to new episodes every Monday- Let’s get down to PodBiz!
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
What does sustainable growth in podcasting look like when the industry keeps changing?
In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky talks with Arielle Nissenblatt, Director of Community and Content at Pinwheel and founder of EarBuds Podcast Collective.
Arielle shares how creators can grow without chasing trends and why podcasting’s true value lies in connection, not scale. She explains how independent podcasters turn listener trust into real business opportunities through clarity, outreach, and knowing exactly who they serve.
As Arielle puts it:
“You are a creator who has figured out a niche. You speak specifically to a group, you understand their wants and their needs, and you actually have a direct line to them.. whether it's through a Facebook group, a monthly Zoom, or Patreon. If you know how to reach those people and can then translate what they need to a potential advertiser, you can make money.”
Arielle also talks about the connection that keeps podcasting unique:
“Podcasting is still magical because of the connection it creates. You can’t replicate that feeling in a YouTube video or on social media. It’s a voice in your ear, and that intimacy builds trust faster than any metric ever could.”
In this episode:
Guest Bio:
Arielle Nissenblatt is the Head of Community and Content at Pinwheel, cohost of Sounds Profitable: The Download, and founder of EarBuds Podcast Collective. Known for her community-driven approach, Arielle is one of the podcast industry’s most trusted voices on sustainable growth and audience connection.
Connect with Arielle:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arielle-nissenblatt
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/arithisandthat
EarBuds Podcast Collective: earbudspodcastcollective.org
(00:00) The niche and the hustle
(01:07) Knowing your audience
(03:22) Turning community into opportunity
(06:45) Outbound relationship building
(09:31) Why podcasting is still magic
(12:05) Measuring success beyond metrics
(14:48) The future of creator collaboration
“If you can translate what your audience needs to a potential advertiser, you can make money.”
“Podcasting is still one of the few spaces where creators build trust without chasing algorithms.”
PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?
Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.
Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan speak with Gordon Firemark, entertainment and media attorney known as The Podcast Lawyer™. Gordon shares how podcasters can protect their work, structure their businesses, and avoid the mistakes that cost creators time and money.
He explains why “fair use” isn’t a safety net, why every show needs clear contracts, and how creators can think strategically about the business side of podcasting.
As Gordon puts it:
“You don’t want to walk up to a vending machine that says haircuts $1 and stick your head in the hole. Maybe you get a decent haircut, maybe you lose an ear. That’s what happens when you take a shortcut on something that actually matters.”
Guest Bio:
Gordon Firemark, The Podcast Lawyer™, is an entertainment and media lawyer, podcaster, and educator known as The Podcast Lawyer™. He helps creators and companies protect their IP, contracts, and business structures. Gordon is the author of The Podcast, Blog, and New Media Producer’s Legal Survival Guide and host of Entertainment Law Update and Legit Podcast Pro.
Connect with Gordon Firemark:
Website: https://gordonfiremark.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gordonfiremark
(00:30) The $1 Haircut Analogy
(01:05) Welcome to PodBiz
(02:19) Where’s the Money in Podcasting?
(03:03) From Theater to Media Law
(05:27) Why Podcasting Isn’t Radio
(08:25) Making Legal Education Accessible
(09:11) Templates, Courses, and the DIY Legal Toolkit
(10:12) The $1 Haircut Rule
(12:08) Treating Your Podcast as a Business
(14:22) Top Three Legal Mistakes Podcasters Make
(16:46) StoryBrand and Making the Client the Hero
(18:36) Quality Over Quantity
(18:52) The Future of Podcast Discovery
(21:14) Audio First, Video Smart
(22:10) Closing Takeaways
“Getting people to pay you is great, but getting to keep the money they pay you is even better. If you don’t have contracts and clear ownership, you’re one disagreement away from losing it.”
“Fair use isn’t a shield you can hide behind. The best way to stay safe is to get permission or make it yourself.”
“Every podcast creates intellectual property. The sooner you treat it like a business, the more control you keep.”
“Good audio, clear intent, and understanding your rights matter more than a perfect studio setup.”
PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?
Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.
Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Stevie Manns, a producer with a background in both finance and media who currently works on the branded podcast The Bid for BlackRock. Stevie shares their journey of realizing a passion for podcast production and strategy during the pandemic and how they now apply their over a decade and a half of industry experience to help brands achieve significant return on investment and exposure.
As Stevie puts it:
"The podcast that you’re listening to at the end of the day is the tip of the iceberg ,5,%.. and 95% of it is what you don’t see below the surface".
• Why working for a brand remains one of the most reliable income paths in podcasting
• How branded podcasts drive ROI through brand lift, thought leadership, and audience trust
• What metrics actually matter, from subscriber growth to consumption rate
• Why a 75 percent completion rate is “really, really good” for a branded show
• How Stevie’s transition from finance to production led to purpose-driven work
• The importance of caring deeply about your subject matter, even in complex topics
• Why understanding your limitations and collaborating with experts builds stronger shows
• How creative brand storytelling is evolving and why now is the time for bold ideas
Stevie Manns (they/them) is a producer currently working with BlackRock on their podcast, The Bid. They have a long professional background in finance and a creative background in music and radio, which they combined to pivot into podcast production and strategy. Stevie also works on independent projects, including the Star Trek podcast Set Phasers.
Learn more about Stevie's work at http://steviemanns.com
(00:00) Where is the money in podcasting?
(01:01) The value and ROI of a branded podcast
(03:16) The halo effect and brand lift
(04:50) Podcasts as “top of funnel” thought leadership
(05:38) ROI as a function of content need, subscribers, and consumption rate
(06:49) Defining a high consumption rate for brands
(07:22) Stevie’s unconventional path into podcasting
(09:56) The existential COVID question and realizing a passion for production
(11:43) Combining finance experience with production passion
(12:01) Independent projects, including work with a Ukrainian journalist
(14:25) The key mindset: caring about the subject matter and telling a story
(15:38) What people may not know about the producer’s role
(17:49) Advice for creators: knowing your limitations and not trying to do it all
(19:14) Thoughts on regrets and the future career path
(20:52) Excitement for industry growth, new listeners, and brand creativity
(22:57) Examples of creative brand podcasting
“I do think there is a lot of money in working for a brand, whether it’s a corporate or whatever, but I really think that’s where it is”
“76% of them prioritize like thought leadership as what their podcasts will provide for you to eventually kind of think over time”
“You should be looking for a need and you should be filling that need.”
“I have a passion for the subject matter in general and trying to find a way to tell that story.”
“The secret to great audience development and to making a great show is labor.”
PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?
Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.
Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Where's the best place to make money in podcasting in 2025?
In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Dane Cardiel, Founder and Publisher of Good Tape, about the business, culture, and ethics of the podcasting industry. Dane shares his "two answers" to the question of where the money is, the crucial role of community, and his journey from being the first non-CTO employee at Simplecast to launching a physical print magazine dedicated to the craft of audio.
As he puts it:
“Podcasting... really is one of the only mediums a talent can actually have ownership over and really control their voice, their distribution, their monetization, sort of the full stack that other mediums really don't have any access to.”
Here are some insightful moments within the episode:
• Where Dane Cardiel believes the money is in podcasting—with a hot take and a deep dive into community-building.
• The "Autonomous" and "Participatory" community quadrants where financial success is located.
• The ethics and responsibility of the podcast medium, which allows talent to control their voice, distribution, and monetization.
• Dane's journey from being the first non-CTO employee at Simplecast to a VP role in ad tech.
• The one key mistake Dane observed in ad sales: the widespread lack of audience surveys.
• Why Good Tape, a physical magazine, was created to elevate cultural coverage and shift the industry to be more active in the broader "creator economy."
Dane Cardiel is the Founder and Publisher of Good Tape, an independent print magazine and creative studio dedicated to the craft and culture of podcasting. He previously held leadership positions at several podcast companies, including serving as VP of Creator Partnerships at Gumball and being an early employee at Simplecast.
Connect with Dane on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danecardiel/
Check out Dane's write up, Cashing In On Podcast Communities: https://offtherecrd.substack.com/p/cashing-in-on-podcast-communities
Episode Chapters
(00:00) The tea is hot
(01:07) Welcome to Podbiz & Introducing Dane Cardiel
(01:37) Where is the money in podcasting?
(02:18) The second answer: Community
(03:09) Dane's community chart and quadrants
(04:58) Discussing Good Tape and Dane's advocacy
(08:29) Podcasting as a double-edged sword and medium ownership
(11:07) "We're going to grow old together" and shared values in the industry
(16:40) Dane's career trajectory: Simplecast
(18:46) Selling air: the enterprise side of Simplecast
(21:51) Transition to ad tech: Headgum and Gumball
(23:38) What podcast categories sell in ad tech
(25:41) The biggest learning in ad sales: the lack of audience surveys
(30:42) The Good Tape journey
(35:12) Key moves and mindset: producers and 'business-leaning' talent
(37:00) The difficulties in the industry (layoffs, competition)
(39:03) The future of audio-only and community
(45:16) If starting over, what Dane would do differently
(45:36) What Dane is most excited about: Creator Economy
Some Additional PodBiz Buzz…
“The ability to influence that ability to oscillate that that shared equilibrium of values like, to a center that I feel more comfortable with... that feels like it's within my control.”
“We have to be in this like new entertainment space and be a contributor to that conversation, not just a passive recipient of it.”
PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?
Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.
Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan talk with Randi P’Pool, Founder and CEO of P’Pool Media, about the realities of leading a modern media agency — from scaling teams and navigating client departures to redefining what creative success actually looks like. Randi shares lessons from two decades in broadcast and marketing and the shift from corporate structures to the agility of podcasting. It’s a candid look at leadership, adaptation, and what happens when you build a business that reflects the people behind it.
As she puts it:
“You have to learn to pivot. If something isn’t working, stop trying to force it to look like success.”
• Why adaptability is the key to long-term success in podcast marketing
• How to recover when a major client leaves — and what it teaches you about leadership
• Why authenticity and consistency still outperform “corporate buzzword speak”
• The shift from broadcast culture to agile, creator-led podcasting
• How fractional teams and partnerships can scale creative businesses
• The emotional side of entrepreneurship and protecting your confidence
• What the future of podcast marketing looks like for agencies and creators alike
Randi P’Pool is the Founder and CEO of P’Pool Media, a full-service marketing agency working with B2B and B2C podcast companies. With over twenty years of experience in media, she helps creators, networks, and brands build marketing strategies that connect, convert, and sustain. Randi’s work bridges traditional broadcast expertise with the adaptability of today’s podcast industry, emphasizing creative integrity and measurable results.
Connect with Randi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/randi-p-pool-75872520/
(00:00) Opening | Defining the real business of podcast marketing
(02:14) From corporate broadcasting to entrepreneurship | Randi’s leap into ownership
(06:42) Strategy over spin | Finding the right message for the right audience
(09:22) Authenticity in content | Why “busy buzzword speak” doesn’t work
(10:02) Leadership lessons | Building and managing a business that scales
(17:53) Fractional teams | How integration keeps clients growing
(19:51) The never-off entrepreneur | Boundaries and balance in creative work
(20:43) Learning from loss | Navigating client departures with perspective
(23:13) The future of podcast marketing | Why evolution keeps it exciting
“It’s devastating not only to your ego but financially when a client leaves. You have to learn to take those in stride.”
“People are going to say no. Knowing that things happen at the right time has been the biggest mindset shift.”
“I’m a Leo and I like to be my own boss.”
“You have to learn to pivot. If something isn’t working, stop trying to force it to look like success.”
“Look at the stage. We’re all friends. That’s the best part of this industry.”
PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?
Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.
Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
How do you build a podcast that earns from every direction while keeping its creative core intact?
In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Jack Levy, Creator, Producer, Director, Entrepreneur and Co-Founder & COO of Manifest Media Productions and creator of Table Read, the scripted series that brought Hollywood’s table-read tradition to podcasting. Jack shares how he turned creativity, collaboration, and business acumen into what he calls a “360 monetization” model that keeps storytelling at the center.
As he puts it:
“Money in podcasts is like a goddamn Easter egg hunt when you’re three. Everyone’s chasing the biggest egg, but if you’re paying attention, you’ll fill your basket with smaller ones that are worth even more.”
• What 360 monetization really means for creators and producers
• How Table Read turned community and collaboration into revenue
• Why partnerships and product alignment can be more valuable than ads
• How fiction and storytelling remain untapped business opportunities
• The importance of patience, quality, and purpose in building a brand
• What Jack wishes every independent podcaster understood about growth
Jack Levy is the Co-Founder of Manifest Media Productions and the creator of Table Read, a scripted podcast that transforms Hollywood’s creative process into audio storytelling. With a background in film and production, Jack’s work bridges creative culture with sustainable business practices, helping creators turn great stories into profitable ventures.
Connect with Jack on IMDB: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0506446/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacklevyanefx/
The Table Read Podcast Website: https://www.tablereadpodcast.com/
Listen to The Table Read Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/grg-the-pod/id1809713147?i=1000710066981
(00:00) Opening | Defining the 360-degree view of monetization
(02:19) Table Read | How the concept started and found its audience
(06:42) Building a business | Early partnerships and first wins
(10:33) Collaboration | Why aligned partners matter more than ad spend
(14:51) Storytelling and sustainability | Keeping creativity profitable
(19:03) Fiction podcasts | Why narrative formats are still wide open
(23:28) Audience growth | Building and maintaining a real community
(28:15) Easter eggs | What real monetization looks like in practice
(32:57) Lessons learned | Advice for new creators
(36:44) What’s next | The future of Table Read and Manifest Media
“You can’t pay people to care. You have to make something they believe in.”
“I just decided to stop waiting for somebody else to fund the thing I wanted to make.”
“The whole point of podcasting for me is the freedom to create without waiting for permission.”
PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?
Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.
Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Can storytelling really be the most valuable skill in podcasting- and in business?
In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Laura Joyce Davis, CEO of Narrative Podcasts and Managing Editor of the Stanford Storytelling Project, about the power of narrative podcasting. Laura shares how she went from launching Shelter in Place on the first day of lockdown to producing 200 episodes, founding a company, and now teaching podcasting at Stanford and Google.
As she puts it:
“The magic happens in the revision process. That’s where professional growth, creative breakthroughs, and the best ideas live.”
Here are some insightful moments within the episode:
Laura Joyce Davis is the CEO of Narrative Podcasts and Managing Editor of the Stanford Storytelling Project. She created the award-winning Shelter in Place, has trained dozens of emerging podcasters, and now teaches storytelling at Stanford, Stanford Continuing Studies, and Google. She is also writing a forthcoming book on narrative podcasting.
Connect with Laura on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurajoycedavis/
Learn more at Narrative Podcasts: www.narrativepodcasts.com
00:00 – Storytelling as a vital skill
01:47 – Can you really make money in podcasting?
05:00 – How narrative podcasting builds life skills
07:28 – Shelter in Place: a pandemic project becomes a career
11:12 – Learning by doing: 200 episodes, zero training wheels
13:06 – Why revision is where the magic happens
17:52 – Building Narrative Podcasts to train new creators
22:12 – From burnout to Stanford
25:29 – The mindset shift that makes or breaks creators
29:08 – Creator brain vs. marketer brain
32:31 – The community power of podcasting
33:28 – If starting over, what Laura would do differently
37:31 – AI as a creative companion
“Good work will always stand the test of time.”
“When you can turn research and interviews into a great story, that’s the skill that will bring money, profit, and success to you.”
“You don’t become an expert until you learn by doing — over and over again.”
PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?
Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.
Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Alice Florence Orr, Staff Writer and Managing Editor at Podcast Review and BBC Radio contributor, about the realities of podcast PR, pitching, and discoverability. Alice shares the common mistakes creators make when pitching their shows, how to think beyond “industry validation,” and why audio-only podcasts still have a unique space in the market.
As she puts it:
“Most pitches fail because they don’t tell me why the podcast matters to an audience.”
Alice Florence Orr is the Managing Editor of Podcast Review and a BBC Radio contributor. Her work focuses on podcast criticism, media strategy, and discoverability, helping creators understand how to reach new audiences. She is also an active voice on LinkedIn, writing about podcasting, media, and culture.
🔗 Connect with Alice on LinkedIn
📖 Read her work on Podcast Review
00:52 – The Money Question | Where Alice sees revenue opportunities
01:44 – Independent Podcasting | Models beyond the big network buyout
04:21 – Reviewing Genres | Why niches and listening habits matter
07:25 – Finding Your Audience | Reverse-engineering discoverability
09:02 – Pitching Mistakes | What not to do in press releases
13:19 – What Reviewers Need | How to make your podcast pitch stand out
17:17 – Discoverability Challenges | Why apps alone won’t get you found
23:38 – Getting Into Podcasting | Alice’s career journey and BBC contributions
27:34 – Looking Ahead | Why audio still matters in a video-first world
“Just because… if you want to make a million dollars, you’ve got to sell your podcast. That doesn’t mean that’s the only way to have a career in this industry.”
“You can have a really successful podcast with only a few hundred dedicated listeners.”
“If it ain’t working and you don’t feel like it’s a fit, maybe you should just move on and try something else.”
PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?
Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.
Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
In this episode of PodBiz, recorded before his unexpected passing last week, Todd Cochran, Founder & CEO of Blubrry Podcasting, joined Norma Jean Belenky to share his perspective on the realities of monetization, the future of the industry, and why creators must first serve their audiences.
As James Cridland wrote in an obituary published in Podnews, “Todd Cochrane was a fierce proponent of open RSS and building your podcast on your own website… Ever willing to help progress the industry, Todd was always interested to learn and make friends with anyone in podcasting.” His words in this conversation are a reminder of just how much one person can shape an industry.
As he put it:
“If you want to make money in this space, you have to first deliver value to your audience.”
Todd Cochran was the Founder & CEO of Blubrry Podcasting, a pioneer in hosting and monetization. A Navy veteran, author of one of the first books on podcasting, and longtime host of Geek News Central, Todd helped establish podcasting as a professional medium. His leadership empowered countless independent podcasters to find their voice, their audience, and their sustainability.
We’re deeply grateful to have recorded this conversation with Todd, and we honor his legacy in podcasting.
01:26 – Monetization Realities | Why most creators shouldn’t chase ads first
04:22 – The Numbers That Matter | When agencies start paying attention
07:32 – Beyond Ads | Subscriptions and listener support
10:16 – Building Trust | Transparency, vulnerability, and audience connection
13:46 – Early Days | Hosting, GoDaddy, and growing the ecosystem
19:11 – Hitting Record | Why starting is the hardest—and most important—step
24:27 – Practical Advice | “Record for your audience. Write for Google.”
32:39 – From Niche to Mainstream | The growth of podcasting at scale
36:16 – Future of Revenue | Ads, acquisitions, and industry shifts
37:14 – Why Audio-First Still Wins | Todd’s advice for new podcasters
“Record for your audience. Write for Google.”
“The reality is, unless you’re getting 10,000 to 50,000 downloads an episode, the agencies just aren’t going to pay attention.”
“It’s not about being perfect. It’s about being present.”
“Independent voices built podcasting, and they’re still the backbone of the industry today.”
PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?
Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.
Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Dan Misener, co-founder of Bumper, about why the download has lost its value as the industry’s currency and what new measures should define growth. Dan shares how brands like Ford and Shopify are rethinking ROI, what top-of-funnel really means for branded podcasts, and why audience clarity is the key to sustainable strategy.
As he puts it:
“Why are we selling the number that’s declining? Why are we not selling the number that’s going up?”
Dan Misener is the co-founder of Bumper, a podcast growth and strategy company. Previously head of audience development at Pacific Content, Dan has worked with brands including Ford, Shopify, Slack, and Dell on award-winning shows. With a background in public broadcasting at CBC, he has become one of podcasting’s most influential voices on measurement, growth, and the evolving value of audio.
Connect with Dan on LinkedIn.
Learn more at wearebumper.com.
01:15 – Where’s the Money? | How brands monetize podcasts directly and indirectly
04:15 – Top of Funnel | What Shopify taught Dan about brand shows
07:33 – Brand ROI | What Ford and the Met want from podcasting
12:23 – The Death of the Download | Why it’s no longer the right yardstick
16:47 – Verified Listeners & Playback | Measuring people, not impressions
20:26 – Audience Clarity | Why knowing who you serve drives growth
24:23 – The Hidden Work | Why good podcasting looks effortless but isn’t
27:54 – Redefining Growth | Asking the right questions before you scale
28:46 – Looking Ahead | A new era of measurement and sustainability
“The smartest teams we’re working with are actively working on de-risking their podcast businesses because the download number… I don’t think that’s coming back.”
“When podcasting works, it looks really easy. What people don’t see is the hundreds of decisions behind the scenes that make it successful.”
“The least successful shows we’ve worked with have tried to reach everybody.”
“Growth looks different to every single creator and brand out there. The key is clarity on what growth means for you.”
“I am excited by a renewed interest in the measures that matter: people, playback, and time spent.”
PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?
Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.
Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
At what point does a podcast become a business that advertisers want to invest in?
In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan sit down with Heather Osgood, founder of True Native Media and host of The Podcast Advertising Playbook, to talk about what really matters in podcast monetization today.
Heather shares nearly a decade of experience connecting podcasters and advertisers, from the realities of download thresholds to how long it takes to close a brand deal, to why host-read ads remain central even as programmatic grows.
As she puts it:
“Most people prefer the host-read ad. You’re going to have a better result with a host-read ad. But when we can sprinkle in the programmatic as well, it really helps round out a whole monetization strategy.”
Heather Osgood is the founder of True Native Media, a podcast representation agency specializing in podcast advertising. With a background in radio sales and a love for podcasting, Heather has become an influential voice in the space. She’s a frequent speaker at events like Podcast Movement and PodFest, and she hosts the podcast, The Podcast Advertising Playbook, where she educates creators and advertisers alike on how to make podcast ads work. When she’s not connecting brands and shows, she’s hiking or spending time with her family at the beach.
Connect with Heather on LinkedIn.
Learn more at truenativemedia.com.
01:29 – Where’s the Money? | Why advertising still drives podcast revenue
03:21 – Podcasters or Content Creators? | Shifting how the industry thinks about influence
04:58 – Host-Read vs. Programmatic | What listeners and advertisers actually prefer
07:55 – Starting True Native Media | Heather’s journey from radio to podcast ad sales
14:13 – Brand Dollars Take Time | Why long sales cycles are part of the process
19:07 – Download Thresholds | 5K, 25–50K, and 100K monthly downloads explained
21:33 – Lessons Learned | Why Heather wishes she’d built tech sooner
23:41 – Looking Ahead | Podcasters as influencers and the next stage for ad buys
“If I start calling on Toyota today, I’ll be lucky if I get them to place ads on your show next year.”
“If you want individualized representation, I would aim for more like 25 to 50 thousand downloads per month.”
“I’ve stopped referring to our podcasters as podcasters and started referring to them as content creators.”
“If I could go back, I would start the technology side of our company sooner.”
PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?
Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.
Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
How can pay transparency change the podcast industry for the better?
In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Erin McGregor, Program Manager at the Association of Independents in Radio (AIR), about the newly released 2025 AIR Rate Guide and why setting industry standards matters for freelancers and hiring managers alike. Erin shares insights on building sustainable careers, the role of mentorship, and how community is often the most valuable investment independent audio professionals can make.
As she puts it:
“The year I stopped taking work below my bottom line, I broke six figures as an independent.”
Here are some insightful moments from the episode:
Erin McGregor is the Program Manager at AIR, where she oversees SoundPath, AIR’s training platform for the audio industry, and leads initiatives in pay transparency, mentorship, and professional development. A former freelancer and self-taught audio producer, Erin brings deep experience in community building and creator advocacy.
Connect with Erin on LinkedIn
Learn more at AIR Media and SoundPath
01:13 – About the Rate Guide | Why pay transparency matters
06:04 – Common Underpayment Traps | Why freelancers earn less than the standard
09:29 – AIR’s Role | Advocacy, opportunities, and resources
12:33 – The Water Cooler Effect | Building safe spaces for freelancers
16:48 – Erin’s Career Journey | From freelancer to AIR leadership
23:36 – Thinking Like a Business | Setting a bottom line
25:43 – Underused Resources | How AIR supports independents
26:59 – Mentorship Marketplace | Getting guidance when you need it
31:02 – What’s Next | Audience engagement and live events
“Freelancers need to think like a business.”
“All interns should get paid—no exceptions.”
“Community is often the number one thing people renew their membership for.”
“Pay transparency benefits everyone on all sides of the industry.”
“Mentorship can accelerate your career by years.”
PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?
Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.
Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
How do political and narrative podcasts carve out sustainable monetization strategies in today’s ad-driven industry?
In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Giancarlo Bizzarro, VP of Sales at Crooked Media, about how the company approaches podcast monetization in a shifting media landscape. From balancing content with ad sales to cultivating long-term client partnerships, Giancarlo breaks down the strategies that keep Crooked at the forefront of political and cultural podcasting.
As he puts it:
“Act as if you’re the client’s ad agency.”
Here are some insightful moments within the episode:
Giancarlo Bizzarro is the Vice President of Sales at Crooked Media, where he leads advertising and sponsorship strategy across the company’s podcast network. With extensive experience in media sales, Giancarlo has shaped how Crooked positions its shows in a crowded marketplace, balancing the demands of advertisers with the unique voice of politically and culturally influential podcasts.
Connect with Giancarlo on LinkedIn.
01:22 – Today’s Revenue Mix | Direct, programmatic, subscriptions, branded content, custom segments, and video
02:44 – Limited Series & De-Risking | How Crooked launches shows and protects investment with feed strategy
07:09 – Case Study: World Corrupt | Men in Blazers × Pod Save the World collaboration and why it worked
10:14 – Baked-In vs. Programmatic | Why baked-in is still the “king” of ad units for brands and audiences
14:10 – CPMs & Pricing | Where the market lands today and when higher CPMs make sense
18:49 – GC's Career Path to Crooked | From the Obama campaign to Oxford Road, Cadence13, WME, and Crooked
23:44 – Sales Philosophy | Acting as the client’s agency and building long-term partnerships
27:57 – What’s Next for Crooked | CrookedCon
“My ethos has always been in selling, act as if you're the client's ad agency.”
“The money is generally dispersed mainly amongst direct advertisers, programmatic advertisers, subscription.”
“You're seeing money in branded content. You're seeing money in custom segments, and now you're seeing some money in video as well.”
“If they're smart, pick up on, and if they're small, they can still get a piece of the pie.”
“Subscriptions, branded content, and ads in general.. there's a lot of opportunity for people who have small businesses or maybe are coaches to use a podcast as a funnel.”
PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?
Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.
Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
What can indie podcasters learn from building a podcast software company from the ground up?
In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Mark Asquith, co-founder and Managing Director of Captivate, about building a service-first software company, Captivate’s acquisition by Global, and how the independent creator economy continues to evolve. Mark shares why putting people and experience first has been his guiding principle- and how that mindset benefits both software companies and podcasters alike.
As he puts it:
“Give people the best experience every time they interact with you or your brand, no matter the outlet.”
Here are some insightful moments from the episode:
Mark Asquith is the co-founder and Managing Director of Captivate, a UK-based podcast hosting, analytics, and monetization platform acquired by Global in 2021. Known as “That British Podcast Guy,” Mark is one of the United Kingdom’s original podcasting experts and is recognized worldwide as an insightful, thought-provoking, and actionable podcast industry keynote speaker. A creator, startup founder, and advocate for independent podcasters for over a decade, Mark has built his career on a service-first approach, focusing on brand experience, community, and creator support.
Learn more at Captivate.fm
00:29 – Where’s the Money? | How podcast monetization has evolved
03:51 – New Revenue Streams | Live events, subscriptions, fan engagement
04:59 – How Mark Got Started | From pop culture podcasting to software founder
08:10 – People First | Why service and experience drive success
12:21 – Captivate’s Differentiator | More than a software company
14:07 – Starting Over? | Why he wouldn’t change a thing
15:33 – The Global Acquisition | How it happened and what stayed the same
19:17 – The Ripple Effect | How mainstream deals helped indie podcasters
“Treat everyone with the same level of respect—no matter who they are.”
“We built Captivate for serious podcasters, not everyone.”
“The audience for podcasts is bigger than it’s ever been.”
“Experience is what people remember—not features.”
PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?
Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.
Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Bryan Barletta, partner at Sounds Profitable, about sustainable podcast growth, industry transparency, and the future of audio as a media platform. Bryan shares how creators and companies alike can think beyond short-term ad models and lean into strategic momentum, consulting, and collaboration to thrive in podcasting today.
As he puts it:
“Everything we’re doing is growth—even if your podcast doesn’t have ads, you’re promoting your brand.”
Here are some insightful moments from the episode:
Bryan Barletta is the co-founder of Sounds Profitable, a leading trade publication and partnership network advancing the business of podcasting. With a background in attribution and ad tech, Bryan previously worked at Barometric and Megaphone before founding Sounds Profitable to bring clarity, transparency, and strategic insight to the podcast industry.
Connect with Bryan on LinkedIn
Learn more at SoundsProfitable.com
00:16 – Where’s the Money? | Bryan breaks down podcast revenue beyond ads
01:49 – Subscriptions & Support | What fans value—even if they don’t always listen
04:40 – Bryan’s Career Path | From ad tech to industry advocate
06:17 – Industry Lessons | Why podcasting failed to upskill creatives
10:15 – Building Momentum | How Sounds Profitable hit 200+ partners
12:45 – Case Study: SXSW | Activating opportunities with short timelines
15:00 – Consulting & Value | What partners really get from Sounds Profitable
17:43 – Community & Network | Why collaboration still drives podcasting
20:49 – If Starting Over | What Bryan would do differently
23:42 – Future Vision | Podcasts as media companies, not just shows
“Subscriptions continue to be a thing that’s incredibly valuable.”
“Podcasting is a killer job entry point for the creator economy.”
“The networking is so killer—your network is your net worth.”
“Momentum is really it. It’s thinking in years, not weeks.”
“The word podcasting is unifying creators across platforms.”
“We consistently underpromise and overdeliver—and that builds trust.”
PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?
Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.
Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Molly DeMellier, COO of Sundaze PR, about how creators can use earned media, slow-burn PR, and community building to increase visibility and diversify podcast revenue. Molly shares how understanding the difference between PR and marketing- and leaning into the long game- can help creators build sustainable brand value. We also dig into her career journey from Acast to leading a boutique podcast PR agency, and what’s next for audio in mainstream media.
As she puts it:
“PR is very much a slow burn and it can take a very long time to pay off.”
Molly DeMellier is the COO of SunDaze PR, a boutique agency that helps podcasters and creators gain long-term visibility through strategic PR campaigns. With deep expertise in creator strategy, earned media, and podcast positioning, Molly leads SunDaze’s efforts to put high-quality shows in front of the audiences that matter most.
Connect with Molly on LinkedIn
Learn more at SunDaze PR
03:00 – Community is Currency | Why listener relationships still matter most
06:00 – PR vs. Marketing | Key distinctions for podcast visibility
10:00 – Molly’s Career Journey | From Acast to building a PR agency
15:00 – Mainstream Media | How podcasting is being taken seriously
20:00 – Final Thoughts | Why Golden Globes 2026 signals a turning point
“Community is exactly the right word there.”
“The way that businesses have really taken hold of the influence that these creators have, it's completely reshaped media.”
“The sweet spot is really in diversified revenue streams.”
“Seeing that podcasts are going to be added to the Golden Globes in 2026 is so exciting.”
PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?
Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.
Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
How are today’s creators rethinking monetization and what role does trust play in podcast growth?
In this episode of PodBiz, NJ sits down with James Cridland, Editor of Podnews and radio futurologist, for a high-level look at current state of podcast monetization. James shares how creators are expanding beyond traditional advertising into value-for-value models, subscriptions, and newsletters that build real trust with their audiences. With clarity and candor, James discusses how the medium is evolving and how Podnews itself became an industry staple by doing one thing very well, consistently.
As he puts it:
“It’s about providing value and creating a community around the people you serve.”
We dive into the ecosystem-wide shifts reshaping podcast monetization and audience engagement, including:
James Cridland is Editor of Podnews, the leading daily podcast industry briefing, and a renowned radio futurologist. A former strategist at Virgin Radio and the BBC, James has spent decades helping platforms and creators innovate across streaming, radio, and podcasting. His work has shaped open podcasting standards, and his newsletter now reaches thousands of professionals every day with trusted, global insights.
Website: https://podnews.net
Newsletter: Subscribe to Podnews
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamescridland/
02:15 – Exploring Revenue Streams in Podcasting
08:30 – Value for Value and Community Engagement
15:45 – The Power of Newsletters for Growth
22:10 – The Importance of Consistency
30:00 – Podcasting Technology and Future Trends
38:20 – James’s Personal Journey and Industry Reflections
Some Additional PodBiz Buzz:
“Newsletters bypass all of the algorithms.”
“Consistency is the real win.”
PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?
Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.
Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
In this premiere episode of PodBiz, NJ speaks with Adam McNeil, SVP of Client Services at ADOPTER Media, about what makes podcast advertising effective- and what still holds it back. From host-read ads to media buying strategy, Adam shares what he’s learned placing over $100M in podcast sponsorships for direct-to-consumer brands, and in his words,
“host-read ads don’t scale- relationships do.”
We dive into how creators and buyers can align more effectively, why attribution remains a challenge, and how relationships and content fit still drive performance in today’s creator economy including:
Adam McNeil is SVP of Client Services at ADOPTER Media, a leading podcast and YouTube sponsorship agency. Adam has led podcast ad campaigns that have generated more than $100 million in attributable revenue for top DTC brands. He’s a sought-after industry voice, known for his newsletter The Roast, his insights on LinkedIn, and media appearances in Forbes, The Verge, Bloomberg, and Sounds Profitable. Adam also advises analytics platforms like Podscribe, helping improve attribution and reporting across the podcasting space.
Here are some insightful moments within the episode:
00:00 – Host-Read Ads: What Works & Why
02:15 – How ADOPTER Places $100M+ in Podcast Spend
05:02 – Building Trust Between Brands and Creators
07:48 – Common Pitfalls in Attribution and Reporting
10:30 – Podcast Career Advice: From Buyer to Advisor
13:20 – How to Vet a Show’s Sponsorship Readiness
15:42 – Shifts in Buyer Expectations Post-2023
18:10 – The Future of Media Buying in the Creator Economy
“Attribution is broken, but it’s getting better.”
“If creators don’t know their audience, brands will.”
“The best media buyers are part strategist, part therapist.”
PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?
Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.
Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
In this episode of PodBiz, NJ speaks with Danielle Bezalel, MPH, creator and host of Sex Ed with DB, about building a profitable show in a niche many advertisers won’t touch. Danielle shares how she earns up to $140,000 a year from her single podcast feed, not through massive reach, but by building strong sponsor relationships and packaging her podcast alongside other media assets.
As she puts it:
“The money in podcasting is in advertising and long-term sponsorships.”
We dive into the strategy, systems, and mindset behind her success, including:
Danielle Bezalel, MPH (she/her) is the Creator, Executive Producer, and Host of Sex Ed with DB — a smart, science-backed podcast delivering inclusive sex education from top experts in sex, sexuality, and pleasure. With a Master of Public Health from Columbia University and deep experience in the reproductive health space, Danielle helps bridge the gap between education, empowerment, and media strategy.
She lives in Oakland, CA and is available for live and virtual speaking engagements.
Learn more: sexedwithdb.com
Email: sexedwithdb@gmail.com
Follow: TikTok, Instagram, Threads, YouTube: @sexedwithdb
00:00 – Introduction | Meet Danielle Bezalel and her podcasting journey
05:30 – The Power of Niche | How focusing on a niche can attract sponsors
12:00 – Building Sponsor Relationships | The art of long-term sponsorships
20:00 – Creative Sponsorship Packages | Deliverables that add value
30:00 – Professionalism in Podcasting | Treating your podcast like a business
40:00 – Insights and Advice | Key takeaways for aspiring podcasters
“I’ve gone really hard on this niche because I know I’m an asset to these companies.”
“Treating your podcast like a business is so important.”
PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?
Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.
Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
In the premiere episode of PodBiz, NJ speaks with Milly Botes, VP of Product at Acast, about building scalable advertising tools, empowering creators, and rethinking what podcast success actually looks like. Milly shares how her team is building scalable infrastructure for audio and video sponsorships, and why, in her words,
“authenticity is key for creators in monetization.”
We dive into the shift from downloads to engagement, the growth of video podcasting, and what brands really look for in high-performing content partnerships. We'll also get into platform strategy, product design, and why creator monetization is shifting away from traditional metrics like downloads toward more meaningful engagement.
Milly Botes is a seasoned product leader with a passion for building platforms where creativity, technology, and commerce meet. As VP of Product at Acast, she leads the evolution of the podcast monetisation marketplace, creating a more connected, self-serve, and scalable ecosystem that helps creators and advertisers thrive across both audio and video.
Previously, Milly built the Care Navigation platform at Ada Health and began her career at Monitor Deloitte. She has lived and worked in London, Berlin, New York, and Cape Town, bringing a global lens to platform strategy and creator empowerment.
Connect with Milly on LinkedIn
00:00 – The Evolution of Podcast Monetization
01:25 – Defining a Podcast in Today's Landscape
03:59 – Trends in Podcasting: Video and Creator Empowerment
06:20 – Metrics Beyond Downloads: Understanding Engagement
08:47 – Milly’s Journey into Podcasting
11:25 – The Role of Product in Podcasting
12:56 – Empowering Creators: Monetization Strategies
15:30 – The Challenges of Product Management
17:56 – Looking Ahead: The Future of Podcasting
“We are building accessible products for creators.”
PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?
Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.
Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.