Organisationstend to do what they were designed to do, And unions were designed quite a long time ago in some cases. And what they need to do and what they actually do has kind of diverged.

Unfortunately, there's no theory of change a union can take off the shelf and say, right, if we do that, that'll work. You have to start in your own organisation.

Easy to say, more difficult to do - Simon and Martin share their decades of union experience to try and come up with a few pointers.

We’re grateful to have the support of Thompsons, the leading trade union and social justice law firm, The General Federation of Trade Unions - delivering trade union education, building solidarity and the home of StrikeMap, Pellacraft, award winning and trusted supplier of promotional goods, and Battersea and Wandsworth Trade Union Council. Thank you all.

Episode run time 30m07s. Organising For A Change is presented by Martin Smith and Simon Sapper. Music is by Scott Holmes. It is a Makes-You-Think production. Contact the show at organising@makes-you-think.com.  This episode was first published on 11 October.  Next episode drops 25 October.