In this episode, Katie and Cali discuss the topic of uncertainty and its role in OCD. They explain what uncertainty means and provide examples of living with uncertainty. They emphasize the importance of embracing uncertainty and how it can lead to progress and freedom. They also share their personal experiences of navigating uncertainty in their own OCD journeys. The conversation highlights the need to differentiate between accepting uncertainty and accepting the scary thoughts as true. They discuss the challenges they faced in their early treatment days and how their understanding of uncertainty has evolved over time. They also touch on the concept of moral injury and the empathy it has cultivated in them. Overall, the episode explores the transformative power of embracing uncertainty and the resilience that comes from navigating it.