Julian Lehr, The Case Against Conversational Interfaces

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Not Boring Radio

Packy McCormick

16 episodes

5 days ago

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For the smart, curious listener. Shows: Age of Miracles Hyperlegible Not Boring Founders Deeper Dives Anton Teaches Packy AI

Technology

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Julian Lehr, The Case Against Conversational Interfaces

Not Boring Radio

39 minutes 7 seconds

7 months ago

Julian Lehr, The Case Against Conversational Interfaces

In Episode 003 of Hyperlegible, host Packy McCormick talks with Julian Lehr about his recent essay The Case Against Conversational Interfaces and why natural language might not be the ideal way to interact with computers. Julian explains why conversational AI should complement rather than replace graphical user interfaces, and shares insights about his unique writing process.

Julian is one of the most creative writers on the internet. Go read his work at julian.digital.

Hyperlegible is sponsored by our friends at Readwise. You can find links to all of our conversations, and all of the episodes we discuss, at readwise.io/hyperlegible.

Episode Highlights:

(00:10) - Julian summarizes his essay on conversational interfaces and why they're inefficient

(02:31) - Why writing is different: "a thinking process" rather than a speed-optimized workflow

(03:08) - The "Pass the Butter Test" and the ideal human-computer relationship

(05:04) - The privacy vs. experience trade-off with AI interfaces

(07:10) - How Julian's visual approach to writing differs from traditional writers

(10:07) - Julian's unique writing process: starting with pen and paper, switching between tools

(11:22) - Using Figma as an underrated writing tool for visualizing content

(12:24) - How Julian incorporates AI into his writing process, using ChatGPT as a thinking partner

(15:18) - Discussion of AI at the OS level and predictions about browser development

(18:38) - AI as a complement rather than a replacement, inspired by StarCraft gaming interfaces

(21:01) - Sam Altman's always-on AI workflow and potential applications for writers

(30:58) - Why Julian took a two-year break from writing and his publishing goals for this year

(32:31) - The status-signaling aspect of the "thanks to" section in essays

(36:12) - Julian recommends reading his essay "The Power of Defaults"

(36:55) - Recommended reading: Kevin Kwok's "The Arc of Collaboration"

(38:15) - Key takeaway: Think of AI as a complement that unlocks new possibilities rather than replacing existing workflows

Essays and Podcasts Mentioned:

Julian Lehr: The Case Against Conversational Interfaces

Julian Lehr: ⁠The Power of Defaults⁠

Kevin Kwok: ⁠The Arc of Collaboration⁠

David Perell: How I Write with Sam Altman

Big thanks to Jim Portela for editing!