Today we're talking with creative coder Cassie Evans. In this episode we talk about something often neglected in web design today: how to bring whimsy and joy to your users In our chat we talk about how the old web had entry points to programming and where we might find find that today. And open with a story about how she, as a child, sold animated cursors for donuts, which felt like magic - and how even today snippets of code feel like magic spells. We loved our conversation with Cassie, and think you will too, let's dig in!