In this episode, Dr Happymon Jacob speaks with Prof. Rajesh Rajagopalan (Professor of International Politics at Jawaharlal Nehru University, Delhi) about the role of morality in statecraft and international relations. Prof. Rajagopalan argues that while most states justify their international behaviour and foreign policy in moral terms, and perceive themselves as moral actors, their actions are driven by self-interest. Moral causes and behaviours are pursued to the extent that they do not conflict with interests and come without high costs. He sees no moral restraint in states’ dealing with reprehensible and immoral actors if it serves their interests, keeping in mind long-term costs and benefits. Prof. Rajagopalan separates international behaviour of states which is interest-driven and their domestic policies which are constitutionally bound but he also agrees that immoral international behaviour may seep into domestic politics and is, therefore, a danger to guard against.