28: Stephen Fleming - Plato, Joseph Smith, and Mormonism

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Mystics and Muons

38 episodes

3 days ago

Mystics and Muons is devoted to exploring the nature of reality and the intersection between philosophy, science, and spirituality. At times we also explore the esoteric origins of Mormonism. While exploring reality, idealism serves as a core model. Materialism, though helpful, is a projection of a deeper fundamental truth. Consciousness is the ground of reality from which the experience of matter, space, and time emerge, just as it does every night as we dream. Models like those of Bernardo Kastrup, Donald Hoffman, Rupert Spira, all point to the fundamental truth of idealism.

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28: Stephen Fleming - Plato, Joseph Smith, and Mormonism

Mystics and Muons

1 hour 35 minutes 17 seconds

1 year ago

28: Stephen Fleming - Plato, Joseph Smith, and Mormonism

Gabe and Stephen discuss Plato as an influence for Joseph Smith and Mormonism. Stephen describes his journey tracing the roots of Mormonism, and how that led him to research Plato and Christian Platonism. They also discuss defining hermeticism, as well as the possibility that Plato and Joseph Smith were drawing from the same perfect form of spiritual philosophy and adapting it in their own way, rather than Plato necessarily influencing Joseph Smith. Finally, they discuss whether this parallel between Platonism and Mormonism is faith affirming or faith challenging.

Links

Stephen's Presentation - Joseph Smith and the Ancient Religion: Or Where Was Zerahemla

https://alexandria.ucsb.edu/downloads/v118rd789

Stephen's Dissertation - The Fulness of the Gospel: Christian Platonism and the Origins of Mormonism

Here for the esoteric origins of Mormonism? Check out

Episode 2 or read it in on the Substack for the integrative narrative of Mormon origins:

Here for the science and spirituality? Check out:

Interview with Donald Hoffman

Interview with Bernardo Kastrup

Discussion with Bernardo Kastrup on Entropy

Please rate, share, and get in touch at mysticsandmuons@gmail.com!

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Stephen's Background

05:08 Gabe's Exposure to Philosophy at BYU and his Ensuing Faith Crisis

06:14 Tracing Mormonism's Roots

09:02 The Refiner's Fire by John Brooke

14:03 The Challenges of Defining Hermeticism

17:02 The Problem with Presentism

21:03 The Unifying Potential of the Mystical Experience in Understanding History

25:12 Have We Cut Ourselves off from Gnosis Today?

28:19 Plato

31:44 Defining Neoplatonism

34:50 Theurgy

36:08 Love-Hate Relationship Between Plato and Christianity

39:17 Platonic Influence on Joseph Smith

44:35 The Divide Between God and Man, Christ as Savior vs Christ as Way-Shower

52:16 Quaker Beliefs on Christ as a Mystic

54:30 Did Plato Influence Joseph Smith, or Did They Both Access the Same Space?

56:47 Mystical Experiences

01:07:25 Paradoxes and Plato's Cave

01:09:50 Plato and Joseph Smith - Faith Affirming or Deconstructing?

01:13:05 If Christ Showed up Today, Would he be more Platonist, Buddhist, or Christian?

01:21:44 Stephen's Spiritual Experiences

01:23:48 Is Mormonism a Religion, or is it "All Truth"?

01:32:40 Following your Intuition