"We’re playing for keeps here."
When you sit down with Dr. Stephen Ilardi, you realize quickly this is someone who’s spent a lifetime not only studying depression, but also sitting in the room with it, teaching about it, and working to change how we understand it.
In Part One of our conversation, Dr. Ilardi shares why depression has become so common in the modern world, how it fits into the broader pattern of “diseases of civilization,” and why the way we live today is often at odds with the brain and body we evolved to have. We talk about the Therapeutic Lifestyle Change (TLC) protocol he developed, what it means to truly be present for someone in pain, and how grounded hope can become a lifeline.
We also explore:
→ How lifestyle changes can be as powerful as medication for many people
→ Why human connection, light exposure, and movement matter for mental health
→ The role of optimism, curiosity, and presence in the healing process
About Dr. Stephen Ilardi
Stephen S. Ilardi, Ph.D., is an American clinical psychologist, neuroscientist, and associate professor in the Department of Psychology at the University of Kansas. After earning his doctorate in clinical psychology from Duke University in 1995, Stephen launched a career devoted to uncovering the neurobiological roots of major depressive disorder and translating that science into practical, everyday interventions.
His signature contribution is the Therapeutic Lifestyle Change (TLC) protocol—a six-part, drug-free treatment for depression grounded in evolutionary psychology and supported by clinical trials showing 70–75% of participants experience significant symptom reduction. TLC focuses on anti-rumination engagement, regular aerobic exercise, increased omega-3 intake, bright-light exposure, restorative sleep, and sustained social connection.
Dr. Ilardi distilled this work into his bestselling book The Depression Cure, which has been translated into multiple languages and updated for 2025. His two TEDx talks—“Depression Is a Disease of Civilization” and “Brain Chemistry Lifehacks”—have been viewed more than five million times, extending his reach far beyond the classroom and clinic.
Episode Links & Resources
The Depression Cure by Dr. Stephen Ilardi
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Episode Chapters
00:00 Welcome + feeling the urgency of depression
02:19 Introducing Dr. Stephen Ilardi
04:30 Why presence matters in healing
11:58 The training that shaped Dr. Ilardi’s approach
20:47 Depression as a “disease of civilization”
29:41 What protects the Kaluli people from depression
37:22 Lifestyle changes that rival medication
45:38 The Therapeutic Lifestyle Change protocol
55:14 Hope as a lifeline in depression treatment
