“Mountaineering, climbing - whatever name you want to give it - is probably the most honest thing there is”
Sometimes… there’s room for one more episode. Even though Mountain Air is currently on a summer break between the end of series 3 and the eventual arrival of series 4, a timely interview opportunity came along that proved impossible to turn down.
The recently released book “Walking Out of the Dark: How I Learned to Love Life Again” comes from first-time author Kelvyn James. A searingly honest piece of writing, it recounts profound tragedies and long-endured traumas but ultimately describes “a life-affirming journey through mountains, memory and meaning”.
In this conversation, Kelvyn describes the origin of the book, and discusses why healing, mental health and the outdoors are so profoundly connected.
* Learn more about Kelvyn here: https://mountainservices.co.uk/
If you’d like to buy a copy of the book - profits from which go directly to the charity Wellness Walks - you can do so via the Wellness Walks website or on Amazon via the links below.
* https://wellnesswalks.org.uk/product/walking-out-of-the-dark-signed-hardback/
* https://www.amazon.co.uk/Walking-out-Dark-learned-again/dp/1068519436
Listen, enjoy, tell your friends.
[episode recorded on 16/06/25]
00:00 - Introduction
02:17 - Welcome from the most confused place in Britain
04:08 - A litany of outdoor achievements (“an insight into high-functioning ADHD”)
06:50 - An overview of Walking out of the Dark; “I didn’t know I was writing a book for a long time, I thought I was writing a journal”
09:00 - “Even from the darkest of things, people can find a way”; describing the “black hole” at the centre of the book
14:48 - Release and healing in the outdoors; a place to be open with others; the psychology of the outdoor experience
16:15 - “Mountaineering, climbing… whatever name you want to give it, is probably the most honest thing there is”
18:10 - “Climbing was the first thing where I felt me, where I first felt in charge... and when what happened happened, it was climbing I went back to”
19:20 - “I didn’t expect people to react well, and pretty much they all universally did... it gave me a sense of worth”; a personal history of a love of climbing
24:20 - Learning to lead in the outdoors: “I remember asking my instructor what his real job was”; thoughts on the tough financial reality for outdoor professionals
28:53 - All about Wellness Walks; walking from home during the COVID pandemic; putting an advert on social media and waking up to dozens of requests; the honesty that comes from walking and talking without the need for eye contact
35:00 - “I didn’t see the joy in the world for a long time, but the miracle is that joy doesn’t disappear”
38:35 - Greatest Mountain Memory: a peerless viewpoint just outside of the Chamonix valley
42:20 - All the time, money, freedom… where do you go and what would you do? Climbing Pinnacle Ridge on the Helvellyn range.
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“Mountaineering, climbing - whatever name you want to give it - is probably the most honest thing there is”
Sometimes… there’s room for one more episode. Even though Mountain Air is currently on a summer break between the end of series 3 and the eventual arrival of series 4, a timely interview opportunity came along that proved impossible to turn down.
The recently released book “Walking Out of the Dark: How I Learned to Love Life Again” comes from first-time author Kelvyn James. A searingly honest piece of writing, it recounts profound tragedies and long-endured traumas but ultimately describes “a life-affirming journey through mountains, memory and meaning”.
In this conversation, Kelvyn describes the origin of the book, and discusses why healing, mental health and the outdoors are so profoundly connected.
* Learn more about Kelvyn here: https://mountainservices.co.uk/
If you’d like to buy a copy of the book - profits from which go directly to the charity Wellness Walks - you can do so via the Wellness Walks website or on Amazon via the links below.
* https://wellnesswalks.org.uk/product/walking-out-of-the-dark-signed-hardback/
* https://www.amazon.co.uk/Walking-out-Dark-learned-again/dp/1068519436
Listen, enjoy, tell your friends.
[episode recorded on 16/06/25]
00:00 - Introduction
02:17 - Welcome from the most confused place in Britain
04:08 - A litany of outdoor achievements (“an insight into high-functioning ADHD”)
06:50 - An overview of Walking out of the Dark; “I didn’t know I was writing a book for a long time, I thought I was writing a journal”
09:00 - “Even from the darkest of things, people can find a way”; describing the “black hole” at the centre of the book
14:48 - Release and healing in the outdoors; a place to be open with others; the psychology of the outdoor experience
16:15 - “Mountaineering, climbing… whatever name you want to give it, is probably the most honest thing there is”
18:10 - “Climbing was the first thing where I felt me, where I first felt in charge... and when what happened happened, it was climbing I went back to”
19:20 - “I didn’t expect people to react well, and pretty much they all universally did... it gave me a sense of worth”; a personal history of a love of climbing
24:20 - Learning to lead in the outdoors: “I remember asking my instructor what his real job was”; thoughts on the tough financial reality for outdoor professionals
28:53 - All about Wellness Walks; walking from home during the COVID pandemic; putting an advert on social media and waking up to dozens of requests; the honesty that comes from walking and talking without the need for eye contact
35:00 - “I didn’t see the joy in the world for a long time, but the miracle is that joy doesn’t disappear”
38:35 - Greatest Mountain Memory: a peerless viewpoint just outside of the Chamonix valley
42:20 - All the time, money, freedom… where do you go and what would you do? Climbing Pinnacle Ridge on the Helvellyn range.
> Find galleries, blog posts and many more episodes at www.mountainairpodcast.uk
Episode 2#06 welcomes a man that may be the most prolific hillwalker in history. That’s because Rob Woodall has spent the past 40 years systematically completing every list of peaks, tops, prominences and trig points in existence. Putting to one side the popular lifetime achievements of the Munros, the Corbetts, the Wainwrights and such; he’s summited all 1,556 “Marilyns” (UK peaks with a relative prominence of 150m), touched at least 6,190 trig points, and even stood atop all 2,271 “TuMPs” on the Welsh mainland (a deeply esoteric list of raised ground with Thirty and Upward Metre Prominences).
Since recently semi-retiring his ambitions have even turned to the list of global “Ultra” peaks, which are those with a topographic prominence of 1,500m. There are 119 in Europe (not including the Matterhorn or the Eiger whose high cols preclude them), none in Britain (poor Ben Nevis), and so far at least 1,515 have been identified across the world. Nobody has come close to completing this list, and Rob doesn’t believe they are “realistically completable by anybody”. But he’s still quietly ticking them off.
His achievements haven’t gone unnoticed, and it’s likely that you will have read about him in the outdoor press… but so many questions remain:
How has he achieved such incredible hillbagging feats whilst being based in the lowland city of Peterborough?
Has his lifelong career in civil engineering given him the map-savvy skills to achieve his goals?
How does he endure so much driving?
What kit does he wear when he’s out in the hills?
Is there any moment of his spare time that isn’t spent hunting down summits?
How do you access a sea stack?
Can microspikes keep you from slipping on guano?
Is he aware of quite how bonkers the whole thing seems to those outside the hobby?
Listen, enjoy, tell your friends, subscribe to the podcast if you get and chance, and thank UKHillwalking.com for their kind support of this series!
[episode recorded on 18/11/21]
Note: as there were a number of months in-between recording and publication, the ever-thorough Rob would like to point out that…
The newly created North Northants unitary authority's top is a new hill! See Mill Hill
There's not even a Hump in East Anglia (there are none east of Northampton's Arbury Hill)
He is now 62
Elbrus, for obvious reasons, is no longer in his current climbing plans
The Africa trip mentioned near the end of the interview was not feasible due to COVID restrictions
Time stamps:
00:00 - Introduction
02:02 - Welcome, “mind-bending achievements”
03:57 - Defining the hill-bagging lists (Rob’s done them all)
09:22 - “Anything which sticks out of the ground in Britain… you’ve stood on top of?”
10:17 - *2021
14:17 - Starting a hill-bagging career in his early 20s, opening up further ticklists (birds, botany)
18:02 - A friendly rivalry with Ken Whyte (who sadly passed away after this interview was recorded, see his obituary here: https://www.peakbagger.com/climber/climber.aspx?cid=7239), the camaraderie of chartering boats with fellow baggers to reach isolated island peaks, cake, whiskey and parties on the tops
20:12 - “It’s not the sort of number that you can get to accidentally”
22:32 - The practicalities of bagging: sleeping in the car, keeping up fitness, mountain running the “Big Three” rounds
27:37 - Bagging the 6,200+ Trig Pillars (“they keep disappearing, a few get re-found which is always exciting”)
32:02 - … nuclear sub base… critical assets that are “rather well defended… 20 years ago the fences were very different”
34:02 - Coping with mammoth amounts of driving: “I’m a big fan of Radio 4”
36:32 - Favourite parts of the UK hills and “spectacularly wet days”
40:22 - Sea stacks, gannet colonies, the October “sweet spot” and microspikes
47:32 - “I’m pretty obsessive, yeah…”
48:32 - Praising the Buffalo Teclite and various phone apps
51:42 - The global “ultras” (1,500m prominence)... which aren’t “realistically completable by anybody”
56:17 - Using local guides
60:32 - “Taking on something when you don’t know if it’s possible or not… you get a real buzz when it’s complete.”
62:02 - Greatest mountain memory… Mount Odin in British Columbia “you can’t really see it from anywhere… it’s grizzly bear country”
64:32 - All the time, money, freedom… what do you do? Disappear into the Andes for a number of months
Mountain Air
“Mountaineering, climbing - whatever name you want to give it - is probably the most honest thing there is”
Sometimes… there’s room for one more episode. Even though Mountain Air is currently on a summer break between the end of series 3 and the eventual arrival of series 4, a timely interview opportunity came along that proved impossible to turn down.
The recently released book “Walking Out of the Dark: How I Learned to Love Life Again” comes from first-time author Kelvyn James. A searingly honest piece of writing, it recounts profound tragedies and long-endured traumas but ultimately describes “a life-affirming journey through mountains, memory and meaning”.
In this conversation, Kelvyn describes the origin of the book, and discusses why healing, mental health and the outdoors are so profoundly connected.
* Learn more about Kelvyn here: https://mountainservices.co.uk/
If you’d like to buy a copy of the book - profits from which go directly to the charity Wellness Walks - you can do so via the Wellness Walks website or on Amazon via the links below.
* https://wellnesswalks.org.uk/product/walking-out-of-the-dark-signed-hardback/
* https://www.amazon.co.uk/Walking-out-Dark-learned-again/dp/1068519436
Listen, enjoy, tell your friends.
[episode recorded on 16/06/25]
00:00 - Introduction
02:17 - Welcome from the most confused place in Britain
04:08 - A litany of outdoor achievements (“an insight into high-functioning ADHD”)
06:50 - An overview of Walking out of the Dark; “I didn’t know I was writing a book for a long time, I thought I was writing a journal”
09:00 - “Even from the darkest of things, people can find a way”; describing the “black hole” at the centre of the book
14:48 - Release and healing in the outdoors; a place to be open with others; the psychology of the outdoor experience
16:15 - “Mountaineering, climbing… whatever name you want to give it, is probably the most honest thing there is”
18:10 - “Climbing was the first thing where I felt me, where I first felt in charge... and when what happened happened, it was climbing I went back to”
19:20 - “I didn’t expect people to react well, and pretty much they all universally did... it gave me a sense of worth”; a personal history of a love of climbing
24:20 - Learning to lead in the outdoors: “I remember asking my instructor what his real job was”; thoughts on the tough financial reality for outdoor professionals
28:53 - All about Wellness Walks; walking from home during the COVID pandemic; putting an advert on social media and waking up to dozens of requests; the honesty that comes from walking and talking without the need for eye contact
35:00 - “I didn’t see the joy in the world for a long time, but the miracle is that joy doesn’t disappear”
38:35 - Greatest Mountain Memory: a peerless viewpoint just outside of the Chamonix valley
42:20 - All the time, money, freedom… where do you go and what would you do? Climbing Pinnacle Ridge on the Helvellyn range.
