Welcome to episode #14 of our obscure Estonian podcast MÜKSUD & MÜLKAD - a series of interviews about understanding and influencing people's behaviour. This is also a pilot for what could become our international spin-off, SAVING & SAVORING - with a special focus on retirement savings behaviour. We are happy to welcome Michael Norton as our first non-Estonian guest! We'll talk a bit about Mike's new book The Ritual Effect and his now famous research on the IKEA effect, and the relationship between money and happiness. But we'll also dedicate quite some time to discussing the retirement savings' behaviour, trying to create a link with Mike's research.

PS Heidi was a bit starstruck and even forgot to choose the right microphone on the Zoom call. So you might hear some anxious tremble in her voice and a slight echo. But the conversation was great :)