What if the solution to tech burnout… is using your phone less?

In this episode, Siara sits down with Joe Hollier, co-founder of the Light Phone — a minimalist phone designed to be used as little as possible. They unpack the addictive nature of smartphones, the dark reality of the data economy, and why stepping away from the internet might actually bring us closer to ourselves.

Joe shares what it’s like to live without a smartphone for over six years, how his design roots led him to rethink tech from the ground up, and why digital disconnection doesn’t mean opting out of modern life — it means reclaiming it.

The conversation moves from AI and Big Tech ethics to the quiet rebellion of turning your phone into a tool, not a trap.

Key topics include:

• Why “dumb phones” are smarter than you think
• What it's really like to give up your smartphone (and how it changed Joe’s life)
• The business model behind smartphone addiction — and who profits from your attention
• How the Light Phone is quietly building a counterculture of intentional living
• Why your data is the real currency of free apps — and how Light Phone avoids third-party surveillance
• The rise of minimalist tech and its growing appeal among kids, creatives, and schools
• Why Kendrick Lamar’s pgLang partnered with Light Phone — and what it says about culture’s shift away from always-on living

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@LogoutPod

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Find Joe online:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-hollier
• Joe's Website: http://www.joehollier.com/
• Light Phone: https://www.thelightphone.com/
• Get the book: https://www.amazon.com/Snake-Oil-Artificial-Intelligence-Difference/dp/069124913X?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&gQT=2

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• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/siara-singleton
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Other ways to Listen:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/log-out/id1768630796

Amazon Music: https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/b3c258c5-cd4d-4ac3-92cd-de98c9fb359a/log-out

Watch the trailer: YouTube Link

Visit our website: logoutpod.com