"No amount of photometric studies is gonna tell you how it's actually gonna perform until you actually see it at 10 o'clock at night." - Rob Reuland  What happens when someone starts taking out trash at 17 and becomes a principal at one of Chicago's leading landscape architecture firms? Rob Reuland from Site Design Group joins hosts Lisa Reed and Avi Mor for a fascinating exploration of how lighting and landscape professionals must collaborate to create truly exceptional spaces. "I couldn't agree more that landscape architecture is so misunderstood," Rob admits early in the conversation. "A lot of people do think it's just about plants, but we do so much more." From hardscape detailing to community engagement to serving as therapists between consultants, the profession demands far more than plant knowledge.  But here's where it gets interesting for lighting professionals. Should the industry push for "lighting architect" status instead of "lighting designer"? Rob's perspective from the licensed landscape architecture world offers compelling insights. The conversation tackles Chicago's disastrous LED streetlight conversion - a $280 million project completed without lighting design input that resulted in harsh, glaring fixtures. "It just drives me crazy that it went LED, but to some 6,000K the brightest white thing you can possibly imagine," Rob reflects. They dive deep into the five principles of responsible outdoor lighting, tree uplighting challenges, and why the new lighting standards focusing on human health rather than foot candles represent a massive shift for the profession.  In This Episode:   (00:00) Rob's early career journey - starting at 17 taking out trash at a Chicago landscape firm, discovering the profession through a greenhouse teacher  (03:16) Understanding landscape architecture beyond plants - hardscape design, stormwater management, community engagement, serving as consultants between design professionals  (06:08) The evolution challenge - how landscapes mature over time, educating clients about day one versus the 2-5 year sweet spot when projects reach potential  (14:08) The four visual professionals concept - architecture, interiors, landscape architecture, and lighting design as essential visual disciplines in construction  (19:25) Professional recognition and licensing - comparing landscape architecture's regulated status with lighting design's lack of formal licensure  (25:11) Health, safety, and welfare impacts - new lighting standards focusing on human circadian rhythms rather than foot candles  (32:08) Chicago's lighting transition disaster - problematic switch from sodium to harsh LED streetlights without proper lighting design input  (35:17) Five principles of responsible outdoor lighting - useful, targeted, low levels, controlled timing, warmer colors to protect wildlife and human health  (42:00) CPTED and spatial quality - crime prevention through environmental design, coordinated lighting and landscape discouraging crime  (47:07) Tree lighting techniques and challenges - lights in trees versus uplighting, importance of mockups, balancing tree health with illumination  Would you be interested in sponsoring our podcast? Reach out to us.   Share your th...