Leading to Learn is a podcast that seeks to understand the dynamics of leadership and leadership development within todays complex world. Saul Brown and Andrew Williams are two Australian based leadership scholars and practitioners who are fascinated in the role that leadership plays in social systems change. They work in their own leadership development practices and jointly at AGSM, University of New South Wales. This is the first pilot episode where Saul and Andrew explore topics, ideas and future guest speakers as they set out to lead to learn.