In today's episode we talk to Patrick Malatack, former VP of Product at Twilio and General Partner at Matrix Partners. Patrick started his career at Microsoft. He then joined Twilio as the second product hire and rose through the ranks to VP of Product. We discuss lessons from big tech that apply to startups and those that don't. We also talk about the importance of customer segmentation in the early days, why you sometimes have to say no to customers and why usage is more important than revenue for early-stage startups. Patrick shares lessons from his time at Twilio on product-led growth and some surprising tactics for creating a culture of customer obsession. You can find Patrick on Twitter @patrickmalatack.