In this insightful episode of Innovations in Education, host David Adams of the Urban Assembly sits down with two exceptional leaders from New York City Outward Bound Schools (NYCOBS): founding force and former CEO Richard Stopol and current CEO Laurie Adams. We explore a philosophy of education that sees the classroom, and the community, as a challenging expedition requiring both rigor and deep support. Richard Stopol, who led NYCOBS from its 1989 inception, shares the core themes of his new book, Inward and Outward: Reflections on Education, Democracy, and the Human Spirit. He sees a vital link between educational excellence and the health of our democracy, viewing the book as a way to engage on these crucial issues. The essays reflect a surprising strain of optimism, rooted in the belief that we can overcome division by "making the circle bigger"—engaging with those who think differently and tapping into our common humanity. Laurie Adams articulates the organization's mission to bring the transformative experience of an Outward Bound course—"challenge with support"—into the heart of the nation's largest education system. This philosophy is brought to life through the core concept of "Crew, Not Passengers," which offers students a place of belonging and a safe space through an in-school advisory. We hear why this focus on interdependence is essential today. For Laurie, this work is about equipping young people to navigate a rapidly changing world by focusing on critical thinking, civility, and respect. Richard adds that the crew structure is a space where students practice the skills of listening and dialogue, positioning them to find common ground in ways adults often struggle to. Both leaders stress that the goal isn't "fixing" young people, but rather helping them discover their own capabilities and unlock the greatness already within them. The conversation is a powerful argument for a whole-child approach, one that acknowledges that social-emotional learning and academic learning are inextricably linked. Whether it’s facing a difficult task on a wilderness course or engaging in a complex classroom debate, the pedagogy centers on providing a productive struggle. As Richard puts it, the most important thing educators can do is genuinely believe in the potential and greatness of every young person. The "Crew, Not Passengers" ethos, they hope, will prove sticky—not just in schools, but as a framework for how we live in relationship and community to one another. We explore the roots of experiential education—from the philosophies of Kurt Hahn to indigenous knowledge systems—and hear why the courage to stand up for what's right is riskier than ever. This episode provides an essential roadmap for building a support base where students feel safe, even across deep differences, equipping them to lead and thrive in their communities. Subscribe to Innovations in Education with David Adams wherever you get your podcasts to find more conversations with leaders who are making things work in education. 00:00 Introduction to Innovations in Education 00:43 Meet the Guests: Richard Stopol and Laurie Adams 03:00 Richard Stopol's Journey and New Book 07:06 Laurie Adams on Leading NYC Outward Bound Schools 11:29 The Philosophy of Crew and Educational Impact 14:51 Challenges and Hopes for the Future 19:53 Empowerment and Responsibility in Education 23:14 Optimism and Resilience in Society 23:59 Success, Failure, and Persistence 24:39 The Role of Challenge and Support in Education 27:39 Empowering Students Through Community 30:49 Universal Values in Education 35:37 Critical Thinking and Adaptability 40:06 The Importance of Social and Emotional Learning 42:44 Final Thoughts and Book Promotion