In this episode we’re speaking with John Mortimer who works with public sector organizations in the U.K. and Sweden to help them reinvent their work and redesign their systems. We talk with John about why it feels like it’s so difficult to innovate in public organizations and the impact that the current paradigm of New Public Management has on inhibiting change and improvement. John discusses the many challenges on the personal level for those engaged in the public sector as well as the need to work at a systemic level to actually change things for the better.